How much does the average Wisconsin school district spend per student as compared against or regional neighbors?

@ Cow Dung --- Good Question -- I found the following on Teacher Salary Info on the web, published 2011:

Average Teacher Salary in Illinois
Average Salary
Rank 2009
Illinois 9 $57,283.33

Average Teacher Salary in Wisconsin
Average Salary
Rank 2009
Wisconsin 24 $48,743.33

Average Teacher Salary in Michigan
Average Salary 2009
Michigan 17 $52,300.00

Average Teacher Salary in Minnesota
Average Salary
Rank 2009
Minnesota 21 $50,360.00

Salary figures aren't complete unless you include the value of the benefits as well...

...and there's more to education spending to consider than just teacher salary and benefits.

We spend more. Look like the gap was more in 05-06 by about $3000
Today, there is a lot of data but we still spend more. Plus they play with adjusted numbers and inflation and my head hurts now, thanks cow.

WI 12,425
IL 12,258
MN 12,120

start around their page 54
http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/HE/NEA_Rankings_and_Estimates010711.pdf

@ Cow Dung --- yes, I agree there are other factors in education than teacher salary -- but it would take a year of Sunday's to adjust all the various figures for comparison -- for example, if one state has more districts per 100 pupils, that would have to be adjusted, another state may spend more on buildings, and then there are administrators, teacher aides, coaches, etc, etc --- but if we keep in mind that the brunt of the discussion in WI has been teacher pay -- that is a constant number we can work with for comparison -- if benefits are vastly different that could be a factor ...

The brunt of the discussion in WI has had to do with teacher benefits rather than their pay, as well as the levels of state aid.

Framing the discussion around teacher salaries really doesn't provide a fair comparison of how Wisconsin's education system compares to our neighboring states.

Dave - NOT only did you not provide the answer to CowDung's question - you pulled some info. outta - where? - and posted it as FACT.

What are you scared of? Besides - The Truth?

Wisconsin DPI site - official and true school salary data.

http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html

Racine School Teachers: LO: $38,903
HI: $89,947
AVG: $55,405

TAX-FREE FRINGE: $28,533

Kenosha School Teachers LO: $36,174
HI: $90,554
AVG: $57,475

TAX FREE FRINGE: $32,201

Burlington School Teachers LO: $25,523
HI: $69,356
AVG: $60,562

TAX FREE FRINGE: $29,775

Milwaukee School Teachers LO: $15,080
HI: $98,871
AVG: $57,602

TAX FREE FRINGE: $36,040

What is the issue with paying a five-figure salary/compensation to someone with an advanced degree? We Energies customers pay CEO Gale Klappa $1.1 million in salary each year and I don't hear a whimper about that (his compensation package overall is worth $11m/per annum, but we don't directly provide that part).

We pay a guy with a Bachelors degree $1.1 million/annum to head our natural gas monopoly, and complain because a teacher with equal or greater academic credentials (and who has to keep refreshing expertise through classes, seminars, etc.) is making less than $100,000 in total compensation to do the important job of teaching tomorrow's leaders.

I don't want to sound unkind, but the "overpaid teacher" theme is in my opinion, ridiculous.

Bren, advanced degree??? LMAO. A teaching degree is one of the easiest ones to get, I cannot tell you how many airheads and dumbarses go in to teaching and still get straight As... the whole thing is rigged so anyone can pass with flying colors. Same thing for masters degrees in teaching, it really is a joke.

And new legislation to make sure that women aren't getting an abortion "they don't want." Don't forget the tweaked high school sex ed curriculum.

Apparently this is the type of legislation needed to jumpstart the economy and create 250,000 new jobs for our state in one term.

Recall Scott Walker (R-ALEC).

Where is your proof?

WHAT? You say it, and it is truth?

That's the problem with these opinion boards - big liars lie big and no one can say they aren't.

There needs to be a warning label attached to your posts *NO TRUTH HERE* required here.

Tim, you can find verification by checking posts in other articles, cracking a newspaper, or Googling. Most of the folks here are politically savvy--even if we don't all agree on interpretation most of us know what bills are being reviewed and what has passed.

Knowledge is power, Tim Scott. Investigate, immerse, integrate.

Can you post some data on that alleged 'achievement gap' between Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota? Still looking for figures on Wisconsin's per student spending as compared with those states as well.

No problems with the pyrites, Bren. Rumor has it that the sunlight makes all the bad stuff go away...

In what part of the US is Walker currently 'gallivanting'? I thought he was in Racine today...

Yep, according to Bren sunlight neutralizes the pyrite and it is a non factor. Also other mines are safe, ours would have been a disaster with residents around the area growing extra arms and eyes.

Many executives who choose to move here to so because of the vibrant cultural life and attractions. Scott Walker slashed the Wisconsin Arts Board's budget (they make grants to cultural organizations) and tossed the agency into the Dept. of Tourism.

******************************

Name 5 who've chosen to move here for our "vibrant cultural life and attractions". Name 5 who have stated they'll not move here now that Walker has "slashed" the Wisconsin Arts Board.

Cow, it's time for you to do some of your own research. Look at comparative ratios of the populations with advanced degrees; look at Wisconsin's own achievement gap between white and nonwhite students and report back.

Steve, you are totally misrepresenting my statement, exposure rendered the content inert for the purpose of the sample (as I understood), more in-depth testing is needed. It's hard to imagine you being an employer/boss, Steve.

Bob, if you visit the website of the United Performing Arts Fund, you will find the names of Milwaukee's largest companies (Johnson Controls, MillerCoors, Northwestern Mutual, We Energies, Rockwell Automation, etc.) high at the top of the contributor list. Also most if not all of the arts organizations in our community. I know first-hand that executive recruitment is high on the priority list of these companies. People who move to Wisconsin do so because we offer a richly varied, high-quality array of cultural activities/programs at an affordable cost, great weekend destinations, etc.

Concerning the Wisconsin Arts Board, the only reason it wasn't eliminated was because the National Endowment for the Arts doesn't grant to states that don't have a state arts agency. Pressure from NEA grant recipients and the stigma of being the only state without an arts agency kept the WAB open (but Kansas recently closed theirs). This just occurred and the agency will fundamentally change as a result.

Bren in virtually every community in every state, companies, contribute to the local arts community and other causes and their executives sit on various boards. Saying you "know" that executive recruitment is high on the priority list of those companies is like saying (just to pick one of them) that you know Miller-Coors makes beer. It bears no relationship to your original statement.

There's absolutely no evidence of the causation you're implying, just as there's no evidence that you have any particular degree of insider access to these folks.

Again if you know of 5 executives who moved here specifically because of our "vibrant cultural life and attractions", name them. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.

Wisconsin is many things, but a mecca of cultural influence and sophistication, compared to a number of other states, it is not.

@Bren....Just to set the record straight concerning locating business operations. I was on several search committees for global manufacturers and the process is quite complex. I'll list just a few of the considerations:
1 - Availability of infrastructure to support operations
2 - Availability of energy resources at affordable pricing
3 - Availability of logistic sources
4 - Availability of skilled workforces
5 - Cost of living
6 - Cost of wage and benefits
7 - Work culture and work ethic
8 - Tax rates and taxing structure
9 - Public education system
10 - Higher education system
11 - Access to transportation hubs
12 - Availability of cultural resources

Bren:

If I make a claim, I would do the research to be able to back it up. You made the claim that we have an 'achievement gap between Wisconsin, Illinois, and Minnesota'. You didn't claim an achievement gap between Blacks and Whites within Wisconsin, yet that is the gap you tell me to research in your response. You already missed with your claim about Walker 'gallivanting' all over the US. Please elaborate on this achievement gap and how we are going to fall so far behind our neighboring states...

$15 trillion debt and rising, cities counties and states bankrupting all over the country, supplying guns to drug cartels, $5 GALLON GAS. How much more would you like?http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/vets-angry-over-american-flag-featuring-obama/nLR5Q/#comments

Rolando P., here's my list of how Obama is wrecking the country:
1. Saved 1,000,000+ jobs by bailing out financial and auto industries
2. Pulled U.S. from precipice of financial freefall during worst recession in 80 years
3. Eliminated bin Laden and significant terrorist leadership
4. Ended U.S. invasion/interference in Iraq, future taxpayer savings
5. Enacted Affordable Care Act which will help many Americans with pre-existing conditions, recent college graduates who would lose parents' health insurance coverage, etc.

Obama is wrecking the country! Oh wait... ; )

Paul S., are you looking for help with your taxes? ; )

Why do you believe that "liberals" want "all" of your money? I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe everyone should pay their fair share of taxes for the services we all benefit from (directly or indirectly). There should be credits for special circumstances, but every person and for-profit business should contribute something (unless there is little or no income). Is that unreasonable?

@Paul S -- How about you get to keep 66% the way I do? I earned it, and I need it more than someone making six figures, so why should I end up paying more to support less tax for you lucky people?

@Paul S....I think that you and all of us should be spending 60% to 65% of our income on taxes. However, if we did, we would be getting universal healthcare, universal education through university, universal retirement, universal daycare,etc. This is what other first tier developed nations get for their 60 - 65% and they are still successfully competing in capitalist free markets. I wonder how they can do it and we can't, the richest nation on the planet.

This nation creates great wealth, but it's just for a few. Read a little Adam Smith and find out what he thinks of accumulating too much wealth in to few hands.

Lyle, your slipping. You forgot universal free cars, gas, food, motorhomes, no reason to work, free vacations, absolutely no reason to work, free movies, boats, whatever you communist IDIOT :)

@tonto...You never disappoint.

LYLE R.

I hate to confuse you with the facts, but the US is the Brokest Nation in the World - with a debt of $15 Trillion Plus, and unfunded liabilities that, well, simply won't ever be paid. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I know - the facts annoy you - and you have no use for the TRUTH.

Keep on lying Lyle - if it makes you feel better, furthers your cause - and continues to provide you with an income from the taxpayers.

@Tim Scott...It is not unique for you to call someone a liar when someone else's take on things differ with yours. As far as the US being broke, that conclusion is questionable. You are using your definition to declare the US broke. You have moved beyond the pale with your claims and your supporting evidence has been "cherry picked" to support your narrative.

More "cherry-picked" lies HOT OFF the Press. (you ignore stuff like this)

"There is now no doubt that the state will soon take effective control of the city of Detroit, one way or another.

The city is on the point of financial collapse. Detroit expects to run out of cash to pay its bills in April or May. Borrowing more isn't an option. The city is $33 in debt for every dollar it has in assets.

There are more than twice as many city retirees drawing pensions and health care as there are employees.

None of this is a surprise. The law says when any city can't pay its bills, the state has to take over."

But NO - that's been CHERRY-PICKED!

http://record-eagle.com/opinion/x2066632109/Jack-Lessenberry-No-easy-fixes-for-Detroit

When you lie enough, you believe it. I don't believe lies.

Tim, your HOT OFF the Press link is to an opinion piece. Michigan is in a state of financial concern it is true, but its woes are exacerbated by its current political climate. Its governor can appoint "financial managers" to take over cities based on a sliding scale of arbitrary criteria (elected officials are fired, votes don't count). For example (as I saw on Rachel Maddow), the city of Benton Harbour's financial manager made a deal to turn over part of this poor city's only asset, a lakefront park deeded to the city in perpetuity by a wealthy resident, for a golf course and country club. The annual dues are higher than some Benton Harbour residents' annual income.

If a "financial manager" is appointed to the city of Detroit, roughly 40% of Michigan's African American population will be denied access to democratic process.

You see, it's all in the way you "cherry pick" the information on which you establish your views. For me, people's wellbeing should come first in a civilized society.

Dave, malpractice suits are not a significant issue, especially when compared to the additional expenses placed on health care access by the middleman for-profit health insurance industry.

@ Dave Koven --- Why are you addressing your missive to me? Or are you just stating something and using me since I started this thread? A lot of what you say I agree with, and you put out a lot for discussion.

Thank god Walker cancelled that. Having lived in Madison and Milwaukee why would anyone want to take a train that was not going to be travelling any faster than the freeway traffic and then would drop you off at the airport in Madison. So now you have to catch a bus or cab to take you to the destination. Oh so you don't want to drive. Take the Badger bus at a cheaper price than the train. What purpose would this train serve. For a few jobs it would create you would probobly lay off people from the bus line. Now funding this slo train is another story which Wisconsin cannot afford. If would not be paying for itself.

Yes Brian, he did and does. A state legislator told me this week that younger constituents want good rail transit between Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison/Minneapolis. Mike forgets that the revised rail plan would have taken it into downtown Madison, which would have been wonderful.

@ Brian --- Walker and many others are akin to Luddites on this issue. Maybe it is the American way of wanting instant gratification, and the rail is an investment that would pay back tremendously more than invested in the long run.

I remember reading that Milwaukee has a much better port on Lake Michigan in the natural sense. Chicago actually was mostly swamp land, until after the Chicago fire, when they actually raised the landscape about 6 feet or so with fill. The water table line ran about 10 miles west of the loop to Ridgeland Avenue (Narraganset) in Oak Park.

However, to be THE port on the lake, needed a link to the railroads. The Powers that Were at the time, did not see any sense in investing money in the infrastructure needed for the railroads -- and of course the rest of history, Chicago is the rail center of the United States, and by virtue, became the port of choice.

Those FIB's so the future and invested in it, while the Cheeseheads were left crying in their beer :-)

Walker ran on the premise that we did not need light rail and followed through on his promise to turn his back on it before realizing that he could not create 250k jobs. I bet he wishes he had that money back now. I just noticed there are 2 Mikes. I am for expanding our technology in rail, broadband, etc. If the train went to the Koch Bros residence I would bet we would have had light rail.

@Tim Scott --- nobody said that Illinois was perfect or had the perfect solutions --- but it was Scott Walker who made the Gigantic Changes and his mouth wrote a check that said 250,000 jobs would result from those changes in his first term.

It is a FACT that Wisconsin is Dead Last in Job Creation --- spin it any way you want --- Walker wrote the check, and the voters are going to cash it in the Recall.

I'm sensing a repeating theme here with your 'Wisconsin is dead last in job creation' statements, David. Did you ever consider that Wisconsin might be 'dead last in job creation' because we already have better employment numbers than the rest of the country?

Another factor to consider is the turmoil and uncertainty brought about by the seeming eternal stream of recall elections that have been going on.

Dave, fortunately for Walker the rising tide of the national economy brought about by the tenancity of the Obama and the Democrats to push for a stimulus and to save the car industry will make him look better.

Of course he and his supporters lack the class to thank The President.

But leading up to last month Walker had no one to blame but him self for the job loss since just about every other state was gaining jobs.

Oh, and by the way, the is the blatant lie in Walker's latest ad (what else is new) that jobs we being lost under Doyle, when in fact during 2010 Wisconsin gained jobs and continued to gain jobs until the Walker budget went into effect.

This comment is ignorant on a variety of levels, but is over shadowed by the disrespect for public employees.

The thing that these guys fail to recognize is that unions set the floor for wages that non-union employees enjoy. Off course blind hatred of the Democrats for what ever reason gets in the way of rationalization.

@Keith I have worked in a wide variety of jobs including both private and public sector. Some Union, some Non-Union. I have been in executive management in both Union and Non-Union companies.

I would not dispute that Union Workers always want as much as they can get --- and that Management always wants to give as little as they can.

Both sides are elected --- Unions Members vote for their representatives, Stockholders vote for their Board of Directors who appoint the Management.

The beautiful part about our government in America is the Balance of Power and the Dynamic Tension that our Founders wrote into the branches and working of the government and which carries over to the parties.

I for one am extremely cynical of All Government and Politicians, and I appreciate this system. It doesn't work very fast, and often makes mistakes, but in the long run, things seem to come out right.

It is the same for Workers and Management --- in a Non Union workplace, the Workers do not enjoy a participation --- in a Union Workplace, they have some say.

Now if Management is lax and gives too much to the Unions -- shame on them -- and if the Union Leaders are too greedy and try to take too much and hurt the viability of the company -- shame on them too.

They are suppose to be at odds -- but also they both need to know when to compromise.

UPS is the best example I can think of as this Union - Management working in the long run to build a fantastic company.

...but there is a big difference between private sector unions and public sector unions in the area of 'Dynamic Tension'.

In the private sector, there is always an adversarial relationship between labor and management, with each trying to negotiate for their own best interest. This tends to result in negotiations that are pretty fair to all involved parties. In the public sector, the guys negotiating with the unions are often people that were elected with the help of union money. That adversarial relationship has been compromised.

Being beholden to the unions isn't exactly a good position for the person that is supposed to be representing the interests of the taxpayers, and has indeed resulted in compensation packages that are beyond reasonable in many cases.

The cops gave Walker the grand total of $1,100 for his campaign. The firefighters donated $0. Barret (not Walker) was endorsed by 300 or so fire and police locals for the governor's race. Walker was endorsed by 4. The claim that Walker was paying them back for their support is false.

The steps that Walker took to end collective bargaining in the public sector unions was not a whim. It was long overdue. Our elected officials often give too much because they know where their campaign money comes from. They have to play ball with the unions or they don't keep their job.