I do not have the solution, but it is how we deal with the mentally ill that will solve much of the problems. Obviously those on meds who repeatedly go off of them are an example, but we no longer lock people up and provide a safe environment. We no longer cut a chunk of brain out of them either. We deal with them by letting them fend for themselves, and when a family member asks for help- we abandon them and use the legal system as an excuse.

The worst school killing in US history was done with a bomb. In 1927.
When machine guns were legal.

Try that one on your knee-jerk liberal friends. Think maybe they'll stop and consider there may be other reasons for the violence?

I dont either.

Dont' be an idiot Crocodile

Tao wrote: "...I don't recall people calling for "no debate" about the causes of the violence on 9/11, or in the wake of the Benghazi attack..."
Tao, your 9/11 reference is completely out of context. Just like the police and parents in Newtown yesterday, the main concern on 9/11 was to get the situation under control and prevent any more deaths. I don't recall ANY non-crucial action or debate happening until several days later. As far as Benghazi, it was not until we found out that B.O.'s administration LIED to us and we started demanding answers.

Tao also wrote: ..."You just don't want to honestly debate this issue while emotions are still raw..."
Correct Tao. Making decisions, taking a stand is NEVER a good idea when emotions are running this high.

Your tactics are the same that Adolph Hitler employed on the Germans shortly after the "Polish attack" on a German radio station that started World War II. In short, force people to make a stand quickly while emotions are running high.

Yes, Brian - I see that you want kindergarten teachers to be armed. I've never heard a stupider idea.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iBmZwZTI6I8/UMwxR3YttKI/AAAAAAAATFc/n7xjsijNtv4/s400/Israeli_teacher_with_her_class%2B%25282%2529.jpg

would you rather have this picture, or a picture of 20 dead 4 and 5 year olds.

use your head son.

Oh yes, I forgot - you're an "Education Reformer."

Tell me, is giving a 110 lb female middle school teacher the right to carry a weapon in the midst of thirty 150 to 200 lb 8th grade boys the kind of thing that strikes you as good education reform?

And of course, you wouldn't require any training, right? Does this sound like a good recipe for anything besides stolen guns and accidental shootings?

T. Crocodile: I think arming a middle school teacher in a room full of 8th grade boys is a great idea! First, in case she would need to use it to save the lives of them and probably many others in a situation if needed. Second, I bet those 8th grade boys would be a lot better behaved in class!

How about a 21st.C solution? Abolish public education, as we know it. No more brick and mortar schools. No more concentrations of children for the mentally deranged.

Louisiana moves FORWARD with 21st. C solutions to failing schools:

"BATON ROUGE (CNS)—More than two dozen entities have filed applications with the Louisiana Department of Education for approval to offer online courses as an alternative to failing schools.

Course providers were cut in for a slice of education funds pie by in HB 976 (Act 2) which provides for the teaching of virtual classes online."

http://www.tri-parishtimes.com/opinion/article_5e08e860-f2ed-11e1-a53c-0019bb2963f4.html

Cont...

" The Khan Academy is an organization on a mission. We're a not-for-profit with the goal of changing education for the better by providing a free world-class education for anyone anywhere.

All of the site's resources are available to anyone. It doesn't matter if you are a student, teacher, home-schooler, principal, adult returning to the classroom after 20 years, or a friendly alien just trying to get a leg up in earthly biology. The Khan Academy's materials and resources are available to you completely free of charge.

http://www.khanacademy.org/about

"We are a social entrepreneurship company that partners with the top universities in the world to offer courses online for anyone to take, for free. We envision a future where the top universities are educating not only thousands of students, but millions. Our technology enables the best professors to teach tens or hundreds of thousands of students.

Through this, we hope to give everyone access to the world-class education that has so far been available only to a select few. We want to empower people with education that will improve their lives, the lives of their families, and the communities they live in. "

https://www.coursera.org/about

"University of the People (UoPeople) is the world's first non-profit, tuition- free online university dedicated to opening the gates to higher education for all individuals otherwise constrained."

http://www.uopeople.org/

@Bill Alexander ... There will always be weapons. The issue is not weapon control, it's intervention control, and this Nation's PC distaste for stepping on one's rights, even if the individual fits a profile to hurt others.

So true.
Not to mention - our humanity is known to be prone to violence.
Just look at Cain & Abel!

Thank you again for the more appropriately placed chuckle, Anti. "Even Bren gets it." ; )

My obviously limited intelligence aside, I do believe it is definitely time to loosen the grip on special interest groups and their stranglehold on good governance. I think that if someone wants military weapons that are not used for hunting critters, they should have an excellent rationale for owning one and regular psychiatric and physical check-ups to ensure that they are in good fighting condition. And the ban on assault weapons needs to be reinstated. And those individuals who continue to call for cuts to social aid programs, which provide services to those with mental and/or physical challenges/disabilities, need to knock it off.

@jeff jandl -- Because the young shooter wasn't a student at the school? It most certainly is someone else's job to look into his mental health -- his family's.

TC- Really? http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/15/us-texas-guns-idUSN1538661720080815

No, limiting 1 gun per person is absurd. I own a high powered semi-automatic rifle for big game hunting, a bolt action rifle for deer hunting, a shotgun for bird hunting and trap shooting and a handgun for protection. We need more districts to be like the one in Texas. Read it and you will find that what I said about "Gun Free Zones" is accurate. Utah has been allowing guns in schools for years. Michigan just passed such legislation last Thursday, and Oregon and Minnesota will be taking the matter up in response to what happened last Monday. Remember, someone who was carrying a concealed weapon stopped the shooter from more carnage.

While your at it, why don't you check out the father of a slain daughter at Columbine H.S. http://www.nrawinningteam.com/scotttext.html

See TC, your answer to every thing is ban, ban, ban. Why don't we take it one step further and ban public schools? Or ban Malls?

BTW TC, if the mother were alive today, she would have been charged in violation of Conneticutt law for not securing her firearms. The laws already exist TC.

The President just said exactly what needs to be said about this issue - you should put aside your reflexive hatred of the man and consider his words.

Brian Dey, just listen to yourself:

"if the mother were alive today, she would have been charged in violation of Conneticutt law for not securing her firearms. The laws already exist"

Obviously, the laws were inadequate. They failed to do anything in this case. They need to be stronger.

And you know what? I wouldn't feel the least bit bad if you had to decide which one of your many precious guns you really needed. You live in a society, not on the frontier, and you need to restrict your own behavior in the interest of your fellow citizens' safety. Maybe you should take up bow hunting.

Toast you are so lost. Murder is already illegal, but there is still murder. Drugs are illegal but I can still get high. The "strongest" of laws will never prevent the very few from breaking those laws.

The "solution" is not more government.

TC- The laws are already strong in Chicago where all guns are banned. How is that working? Let's see, more people killed there than our troops in Afghanistan. Over 550 murders, most of them children under 18. Did this killer give one iota what the laws were or how tough they were? Your side comes across as ignorant on this topic. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

If you honestly believe that if the principal of that school, who rushed the shooter, hadn't had a gun herself, with proper training, the result wouldn't have been different, then you are fooling yourself.

Tao should take up knitting, all of this talk of big bad guns gets him all riled up!

Tao, if an armed teacher could have saved just one child by returning fire, wouldn't it have been worth it?

Gearhead - I am trying to imagine Mrs. Hays, about 65 yrs. old and my 1st-2nd grade teacher, a dear, sweet widow, returning fire against a crazed gunman, or even carrying a capable weapon while reading us Dr. Doolittle. .
Your arguments are sad, unrealistic, and, frankly, foreign and unAmerican. Where are you entering the Internet?

Dirk- You really don't have a clue and like a typical leftwing nut, you only comprehend half of what was said. No one on this post, nor I in my blog, advocated that all staff carry fire arms. If you can point to it, please show me. But having some staff that are trained in the use of firearms could have prevented the mass killing of children in CT.

If you can tell me that if the principal, counselor or third person that rushed the gunman as he entered the school had a gun, it wouldn't have made a difference, then you truly are clueless and delusional. TC seems to have disappeared when asked the same question, and I'm pretty sure you will too, because to answer "no" would make you look like a complete fool.

I'm not as familiar with CT gun laws, but in Wisconsin, this gunman violated multiple laws before even entering the school. The police response time was fantastic, but still approx. 7 minutes. For what ever reason, he was hell bent on devastation. He chose a soft target. If he was truly mentally ill, it would be illegal for him to own a gun. If he took any pyschological medicine for ADHD, autism or whatever, he broke the law. Hell, you can't even join the armed forces if you take such medications. The reports are he stole the firearms, which is again illegal. The weapons were not cased which is illegal. He discharged the weapons in a school zone and the list goes on and on. Ban the wepons and only the criminals will have them. Pretty insane.

Dirk, Mrs Hays time over the years would have been better spent on the firing range, instead of on the picket line, engaging in work slowdowns, or protesting in Madison.

Sorry, Brian - I was busy satisfying my wife. Now, where were we?

Ah, yes - you're insisting that more guns will make us safer. Pull your head out of the sand for one second and consider this: we already have the MOST guns of any industrialized country, so we must have the LEAST gun violence, right? Because more guns make us all safer, right?

And gun control doesn't work, because all of those countries with fewer guns in private hands have MORE gun violence, right?

Quit carrying water for the gun industry, and quit acting like we live in an alternate universe where those things are true. And start deciding which of your precious guns you want to keep, because I have a feeling that real Americans are tired of this cowboy, post-apocalyptic fantasy world that you and your ilk inhabit.

TC- Yes Tao, you are right. The United States gun ownership rate is the highest in the world, accounting for roughly 35-50% of civilian gun ownership of the entire world. 88% of the population owns at least one gun. That is 34% higher than the number two country, Yemen.

However, the United States does not have hihest murder rate of guns. 28 countries have a higher rate than the 2.97 per 100,000. Honduras has that distinct place with 68.43 per 100,000. Puerto Rico tops the wold with 94% of the murders are by gun.

Russia bans handguns and assault weapons and the murder rate is over twice the United States.

Dey - Wow, you sure can imagine and project. A couple of teachers with firearms would stop school mass murderers. As you fail to recognize, mass killers would just meet the challenge. Body armor, an awareness of which poor teachers or janitor might have a weapon, having superior automatic weapons to some poor teacher, surprise assault techniques, etc. And you are assuming that the staff with guns would act heroically and instantly intervene as the killing continued, most likely willing to get splattered with hollow point shots in a blaze of glory as they suicidally rush the mad man. And how safe will it be with amateurs, even with training, carrying guns around kids all day.
I am left with the conclusion that you are highly delusional. Get real, if you have that capability, or seek treatment.

Dirk- Please think of how stupid your comments sound. Those adults tried to stop a guy loaded to the hilt with their bodies. Even you should be able to figure out that had they had a gun, they would have had a better chance. Maybe you are not that smart.

Dey, Education Deformer - Of course a teacher with a gun would have a better chance than without one when confrounting a heavily armored, trained, AR15, 30 round carrying madman.
What I really cannot believe about your opinions is that you were on a school board for a short period. Teachers or other staff in a school carrying loaded guns - what about the liability costs should inevitable gun accidents happen? And what about the gun-toting teacher/janitor/secretary that does not attack the mad gunman at all or in a timely manner? Can I sue the school district for failing to protect my dead 6 yr. old properly when he should have been shot by the art teacher?.

Shots are being fired and you the teacher are in another room. Do you just rush out there rather suicidally while children are dying, try to protect the children in the room with you, try a sneak attack which may take a lot of time, etc. Even police do not just rush in to a hail of bullets and starting shooting.
Think it out more, that is a lesson a good education provides. Get one.

Someone on the school board also ought to be able to spell 'Ritalin' as a minimum.

Dirk- Yes, as a school board member, you are faced with these issues. I was on the board post Columbine and Dunblane, England massacres. And on the board during the time of the Virginia Tech Massacre. The discussion of safety in schools faces every school board member across the country, and not just after one of these massacres occurs. Maybe instead of typing on a computer, you should actually do some civil service. You don't have the guts to make those kinds of decisions.

Apparently, school districts are already implementing what I proposed. Michigan already passed a law to allow teachers to carry guns as long as they have taken tactical training. Israel has been doing this for years, since the Ma'alot massacre in 1974. Legislation is being presented in Oregon and Minnesota for the same thing.

If you ever did any research besides bloviating your uneducated opinion, there are such laws, called "hold harmless" clauses that would prevent you from suing.

So in your twisted mind, even though we know the end result may have been much better, you choose to just continue to blame the gun. Genius...Real genius.

And Randy, sorry if I don't meet you high standard of spelling.

Dirk- that is exactly what happened in the mall in Oregon. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

How many lives did he save? You leftwingers just don't get it do you. The ones that want to committ such heinous acts could give a damn about your gun contrrol laws. Out of the last 62 mass killings, 61 of them were targeted at "Gun Free Zones". Those are the targets they are looking for. I refer you to the links above Dirk and maybe you will see that this isn't a crazy idea. As a matter of fact, teachers in Israel already carry.

Dey - If we can believe the "hero", he never fired for fear of hitting someone else, and the gunman later shot himself when he got his rifle unjammed.If the rifle was not jammed temporarily, your hero could have been among the dead.

You are reaching for straws. You are fighting a great tide, You are overreaching.
Good luck with that idea of everyone arming themselves to the teeth so as to protect themselves from others armed to the teeth.
You take the term gun "nut" to its logical conclusion. And stay away from my kids with your "reformer" ideas.

Dirk- Again, I never said all staff should possess firearms. Only trained staff. And that "hero" never had to fire a shot because when confronted, he shot himself. The rifle was jammed long before he was confronted. Please read the whole story.

And I love how you call me a gun nut. I didn't break any laws and I didn't shoot anyone yet you blame me for the violence. Ridiculous conclusion. I have been trained and follow the laws. Nuts like this guy don't, so throw all the laws, bans and restrictions you want, but it will not stop this from happening.

It is liberals like you that create soft targets so that madmen like this guy can wreak maximum carnage unfettered. And unless you are prepared to try to overturn one of the original rights of our Constitution, which again, the criminal gives a hoot about, guns are here to stay.

Again, I'll ask you how the complete ban of firearms in Chicago are working? 550 murders and most of them under the age of 18 committed in the last year. More than are armed forces combined and total in the same time span. That works just wonderful. No, blame the legal and responsible gun owner, who happens to be your best line of defense in such situtions until law enforcement arrive.

By the way, I do bow hunt and that is my preferred method, however, it is almost impossible to hunt birds with a bow, and hunting bear with a bow isn't a good idea. I like my chances way better than yours should the sitution arise.

Dey - Your self-proclaimed "hero" in Oregon hid behind a pillar and never fired a shot even though it was obvious that the gun was jammed or otherwise malfunctioning. There goes your theory that someone with a pistol would just naturally take out a crazed gunman.
You have blood on your hands because you publically advocate for no further gun laws, including more extensive background checks looking for mental problems and prohibition on manufacturing new assault weapons. There is a responsibility in your rantings online. Your mental situation evidenced in not wanting any legal changes after a score of little children are dead in just one incident tells me you are irrational and prone to a diseased reaction to criticism. Personally afraid of a mental investigation, Dey?
A question about Chicago is how much WORSE would it be if guns were being legally carried? I lived in Chicago. Compare apples to apples.
I hunt also, I have several long guns. Rifle was my main sport in high school, and I was an NRA-awarded sharpshooter then. We are not talking about affecting rational hunting and rifle range here You are way, way overreacting and pretending that a few rational changes in the laws will end legal ownership of civilian weapons.
Your arguments are stale and pedestrian, and straight out of the NRA talking points.

"A question about Chicago is how much WORSE would it be if guns were being legally carried? I lived in Chicago. Compare apples to apples. "

Dirk:

This HuffPo article seems to answer your question--More gun murders in Chicago with the gun ban was in place...

"Chicago Police Department statistics, we are told, reveal that the City's handgun murder rate has actually increased since the ban was enacted and that Chicago residents now face one of the highest murder rates in the country and rates of other violent crimes that exceed the average in comparable cities."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/28/chicago-gun-ban-axed-afte_n_627773.html

Dirk- Talk about wow? You jump to conclusions that I haven't even touched on. I do believe that weapons bans will solve nothing. Nada. Zilch. I have no problems with further training of indivuals who want to own firearms. Background checks? You bet. Sen. Feinstein isn't talking about rational changes, Dirk. We are talking about banning semi-automatic firearms, including the sale, transfer, transportation and possession. We are talking about banning any clip of 10 or more rounds.

Have all the bans you want and it will not stop this from happening if some nut decides he wants to commit mass murder. Norway has one of the strictest gun laws on the books, yet 71 teenagers and counselors were gunned down in cold blood at a youth retreat. Russia has assault weapon and handgun bans, yet in November of 2004, 12 people, including 8 adults and 4 children were killed with 11 of them who were stabbed multiple times. Even in England, long said to be the most strict on gun control has had mass murders, including 11 killed and 7 injured in Hungerford 1987. In 1988, England banned rifles and clips of more than 3 were banned. Hmmm... Should have ended the carnage, right? Not the case, in 1196 the Dunblane school massacre took place, killing 16 children and 1 adult. In 1997, they then banned handguns following the massacre. Should have stopped it, right?
Nope, then came the 2010 Cumbria killing spree, killing 12 and injuring 11.

See th problem with bans yet?

Dey and Gearhead - Pardon my amusement at your statistics, including references to foreign countries, etc. Statistics, and we all know about how they can lie, will not stop the inevitable enhanced gun control laws coming. The NRA overreached, and 20 dead, small children horrifically shot by a Bushmaster AR15 with 30 rounds in a small, safe town will overpower your NRA provided talking points.

Its all over but the shouting. You lose...why else would all those Congressmen with A ratings from the NRA refuse to appear on Face the Nation? Even Senator Joe Manchin, a long-time member of the National Rifle Association with an A rating from the rich and powerful gun-lobby, said ‘everything should be on the table’.

You are looking even more like social and political outcasts at this point. Go to the bitter end if you choose. And you appear so weak, helpless and limp-wristed when you propose that nothing can really be done about these kilings. Of course it can, we are Americans, and not Norwegians or Brits.

Hey Dirk, before you pat yourself on the back, the statistics are from the your beloved UN. Try this stat on for size. When the assault weapons ban was on the books from 1994 to 2004, there were 9 gun massacres in the U.S. 59 dead, 70 injured all with weapons on the ban list, and you lefties want to do the same thing again. What makes you think it will work this time? Remember what Einstein said, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results." You seem to fit that definition pretty well. Oh and the source is the Citizens Crime Commission of New York City.

Dey - You are soooo out of touch with this. You come across as a howling gun nut, supporting the continued sale of assault weaponry and huge ammo magazines in the face of America's outrage.. Even your sacred NRA will be softening up on gun laws. They have to, as spokemen like you are infuriating good Americans by mumbling that nothing can be done to prevent this type of violence, except by more and more people carrying more and more guns.
Quoting gun numbers and violence through the world is naive and misleading. Culture is a huge variable in gun violence, even more than laws or lack thereof when it comes to guns. America must deal with its own cultural realities, not Switzerland's or any other country.
You need to recognize that the event in Conn. was so heinous, horrific, and so totally beyond the standards of civilized decency, utterly intolerable, that we are indeed compelled to develop the best solutions that we can, and rabid fans of military style assault weapons will just have to sacrifice their right to go into Wal-Mart and buy a virtual military arsenal.

Dirky boy is another low information she-male Obama voter I see....who knows nothing about guns.

Dirk: Here is the complete list of school shootings during the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban between 1994 and 2004:

11/15/95 - Lynville, Tn School shooting, 2 dead, 1 injured, 22 semi auto rifle
2/2/96 - Moses Lake, Wa School shooting, 3 killed, 1 injured, 30-30 rifle, 357 and 22 pistol
2/19/97 - Bethel, Ak School shooting, killed 2, injured 2, AR-180 and .44 revolver
10/1/97 - Pearl, Ms School shooting, 3 killed, 7 injured, 30.30 rifle and knife
12/1/97 - West Paducah, Ky School shooting, 3 killed, 5 injured, .22 rifle, .22 handgun, 12 ga. shotgun
4/24/98 - Edinboro, Pa School shooting, 1 killed, 3 injured, .25 pistol
5/21/98 - Springfield, Or School shooting, 4 killed, 24 injured, various pistols and a .22 rifle
4/20/99 - Columbine, Co School shooting, 15 killed, 21 injured, various handguns and shotguns
5/20/99 - Conye...rs, Ga School shooting, 6 injured, .22 long rife and .357 revolver
11/2/99 - Honolulu, Hi Office Shooting, 5 killed, 3 wounded, no weapon description other than gun
12/26/00 - Wakefield, Ma Office Shooting, 7 killed, AK-47, 12 ga. Shotgun and .32 cal. revolver
3/5/01 - Santee, Ca School Shooting, 2 killed, 13 wounded
3/22/01 El Cajon, Ca School Shooting, 5 wounded, suspect shot and arrested by police officer on campus
1/16/02 Grundy, Va College Shooting, 3 killed, 3 wounded, .380ACP Semi Auto handgun
4/14/03 New Orleans, La School Shooting, 1 killed, 3 wounded with AK-47

cont...

Dirk- Again, you can ban assault rifles all you want, then it will be revolvers, long rifles, etc... They were all used in the killings above. 60 dead, 100 injured. Weapons used include. The largest during that time frame, Columbine used handguns and shotguns.
See this is why we fight so hard to protect our right to bear arms. The Assault ban didn't work, so lets ban handguns. Well that didn't work so let's ban all rifles. That didn't work so let's ban shotguns. BTW- the Bushmaster semi-auto is not an assault weapon.

I do understand this was the most heinous of crimes, but the responsibility solely lies with the shooter. You need to realize thatand stop making excuses for him. I didn't mumble that nothing can be done. I offered a viable solution.

Let me outline it again. Remove the "Gun Free Zone" signs. Allow staff who are trained in tactical use of a firearm to be armed on school grounds, or ante up and pay for armed security, be it off duty police officers or others properly trained. We already have that in our high schools in Racine. Use the Canadian model for proper training depending on the type of gun you own. If you are on medication that warns of suicidal thoughts or violence associated with the side effects, the doctor must report that to the FBI, which conducts background checks forfirearm purchases. Have stiffer penalties for gun owners who do not promptly report a stolen gun.

cont...

All these will have a greater effect than any ban you throw out there and the proof is listed above. If you are not willing to think of anything other than ban guns, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. And using other countries was just to further support the data collected in the U.S. for U.S. shootings. And I have already spelled out on another thread that I see no reason to have magazines that hold more than 9 and 1 in the chamber.

Heather- I wrote this piece to specifically deal with one aspect of the problem, but this is just one of many possible solutions for that specific problem. The mental health issue is a harder one to tackle and out of my area of knowledge. I do know that millions of Americans have mental diseases that go undiagnosed. How do we identify those individuals.

I do know that certain psychological medications, such as those prescribed for ADHD are clearly marked that those individuals should not use firearms. And I know that if you are on those types of prescriptions, you cannot enter the armed forces.

I know that a majority of the adults known to have a mental illness go untreated. And that minor children with mental illness don't always get treatment because parents don't want to admit their child has a mental illness. If this man's mother knew he had a mental illness and still had all those guns within his reach, then she is responsible, not every law abiding citizen that owns a gun.

As it is now, we have waiting periods and FBI background checks before any legal purchase. Is anyone blaming the FBI for not conducting a thorough background check? There is no easy solution.

But having adults responsible for millions of children everyday and posting signs that proclaim "Gun Free Zones" is putting them at risk. And not having the ability to combat such attacks is just plain ignorant.

Again, just trying to do my part to educate you low information emotive wash women. It is not a clip, it is a magazine, and I shot a 190 pound doe with one this fall. Now get back to your knitting Troy.

Young:
You are a sad, sorry, little man aren't you?
I pitty you. I really do.

I put clips in my gun and magazines in my john. Sometimes I shoot like crap at the range and have a sonic boom in the john...I'm just thankful I can hit the target in the john.

Craig-
I haven't laughed so thouroughly in a week. That was awesome.
Thank you.

FTT- You have a valid point. But from the evidence provided, it souds like these weapons were fully automatic. The Bushmaster can have an auto firing pin, and is easily converted from semi-auto. While not legal to own or possess, I don't think this guy cared about breaking any of the 40+ CT gun laws that he did, not to mention federal laws.

In Canada, they have better background checks then we do. They also require different levels of training depending on the type of firearm you wish to possess. I do not see a reason to own 30 round clips lawfully. I do know some that use AR-15's, which are semi-auto sold legally, to hunt. It is no different sold legally then a Semi-auto .243, .270, 30-30, 30.06. I own a bolt action .243 and it has certain applications, especially for long range shooting, however, I have a Remington semi-auto .06 which is great for shooting deer on the run, or bear hunting.

Brian -
Common ground. What you say makes a whole lot of sence to me. I think we all agree this cat in CT didn't really care that he was breaking laws. What I struggle with isn't that he was breaking law, but because of the slack laws, the ease in which he aquired these tools.

An AR-15 to hunt? Wow.

Ok - I am not judging. Use what you will to hunt. So if we can agree on the magazine size, can this be open to regulation? Own the gun, but let's not make high capacity magazines so easily available?

FTT- I know, an AR-15 for hunting isn't exactly my cup of tea either. Better enforcement of the existing laws could go along way. Growing up in the hunters environment, you'll get this. If gun laws were enforced by all law enforcement like the DNR enforces gun laws, we might actually make head way.

The only difference between any .223 semi automatic rifle and an AR 15 is looks. I have a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch .223 which has a 30 shot mag and it is identical to the AR except for looks.

Now are you liberals that stupid(of course you are) that you are going to ban guns based upon looks? And you wonder why we conservatives have to talk down to such low information folks.

A 7.62x39 can easily be converted to a 30 round magazine if it hasn't already got one. For a couple hundred bucks you can buy surplus ammo with 1200 rounds of full metal jackets.

Head - Talk on and on and on, and try to make new, rational gun legislation appear hopeless in controlling these mass murders, but America will not give up on rational gun control when little children have been slaughtered. If the proposed legislation will not work, what are you afraid of then, to devote so much chatter?