And what are you on, you are a believer apparently, good luck when you wake up to a call for Obama may I flush my toilet!!!

Yeah. Maybe your head will be in it.

I believe Obama is even worried about this "cliff", so does that mean he is in bed with the Tea Party?
If they do not get this issue figured out, we are all going to be feeling the hurt.

In the end the joke will be on you!!! Got a book for you to read about the affect of belief of lies, its called "How dod you kill 11,000,000 people" by Andy Andrews, If you can read I suggest you give it a look.

They aren't exempt from taxes, go back to bed. Richard, you are crwling way past your speed.

Possibly for the same reasons that Social Security benefits are exempt from income taxes below a certain level. What is so horrible about giving retirees a tax break? They need it, especially since they still have to pay property tax.

Guess I know the wrong retired teachers and retired city of Milwaukee folks, they are millionaires and own lake properties too as well as travel extensively and besides didn't we pay for most if not all of their retirement benefits until recently. I admit there may be some who deserve the break but how about a means test like Social Security has. Naivety speaks for itself.

Millionaires, huh -- on a teacher's salary? They must have done the self-reliant ambitious thing and gotten themselves some night jobs. I thought conservatives were all in favor of bettering yourself.

"In August, the county board's chief of staff, Terry Cooley, retired with a check for $786,000 plus a monthly pension payment of $4,700. One month later, Cooley was back on the board's payroll as a contract employee paid $45 an hour."

Taking advantage of taxpayers is not my definition of how to better yourself.

You are correct that SOME Milwaukee County Pensions are exempt from Wisconsin State Income Tax. It would have helped had you provided links.

"The Department of Employee Trust Funds (ETF) administers a number of benefit programs available through Wisconsin Public Employers. Most government employers in Wisconsin other than the City of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County participate in the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS). WRS employers may also elect to offer various insurance programs offered through ETF."

http://etf.wi.gov/members/benefits_wrs.htm

From the DOR - "How Your Retirement Benefits Are Taxed - For Use in Preparing 2012 Returns - DOR Pub. 126 (11/12)

Payments received from the retirement systems listed below are exempt from Wisconsin in-come tax if:

1. You were retired from the system before January 1, 1964, or
2. You were a member of the system as of De-cember 31, 1963, retiring at a later date, and payments you receive are from an account that was established before 1964, or
3. You are receiving payments from the sys-tem as the beneficiary of an individual who met either condition 1 or 2.

The specific retirement systems are:
Local and state retirement systems:
• Milwaukee City Employees
• Milwaukee City Police Officers
• Milwaukee Fire Fighters
• Milwaukee Public School Teachers
• Milwaukee County Employees
• Milwaukee Sheriff
• Wisconsin State Teachers

http://www.revenue.wi.gov/pubs/pb126.pdf

@bluecheddar1

Rated Mostly False: Walker says he unveiled legislative agenda in Wisconsin, not California http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/dec/02/scott-walker/walker-says-he-unveiled-legislative-agenda-wiscons/ … #wiunion

Why wouldn't they?

Really??? The people in DC don't

AWD, I'd throw "elected officials" into that pile of defenders, too. If only they would show a little more starch when dealing with special interests...

Gee, how did the Obama campaign win? By community organizing.

By spending and attacking. So yes.

By campaigning on "Mo' Free Shit".

If you say so.

Which explains why the stock market lost 50% of it's value since he took office. (Oh, wait, it's actually doubled in value since he took office... Hmmm, something's not right here. Either he's the worst socialist in the history of socialism, or someone's been feeding us one huge line of BS for four years now...)

Ray Ray, please put your tin foil hat back on, and don't forget your meds. You don't want another incident like the last time.

You've just said that half the population believes in Santa Claus.

Actually...over 50%...and with that sed...Santa Claus would win any election...

I'd send a 90 day 'kick the can' bill to the President;and again in another 90 days.
--Rinse,Rinse & Repeat--

Negotiations only happen behind closed doors, not in the eye of the public.

It is the best of the 3 'known' alternatives;Kick the Can(Bush tax cuts remain), Sequestration, Obama's Approach.

LOL - this reminded me of something my grandfather told me : there are two kinds of people in this world - those who break the world up into "two kinds of people" and those who don't.

Its so nice of you to clarify for us slower people who the millions of people who voted for Obama are -- into neat, little "attackable" groups - right out of the Fox/620/Tea Party playbook. Simplify it. Label it. Characterize it. Then u can attack it. I could discuss countless other "types" of voters who may have voted for him, but I am unable to deal in such "rationalization" according to you.

@Greg - What is your source for this 2012 Hawaii vacation? I am just finding the usual speculation and spin from the usual rightwing crackpots when I do an internet search. I can find no official announcement.
Racist much? Obama is not stupid with taking Bush-type R&R like you infer, to commit political suicide by being in Hawaii for any length of time while the fiscal cliff looms. I know a vacation for you sadly involves little more than driving the pick-up to the Waffle House, but don't begrudge the President to briefly enjoy Christmas with his family in his birthplace and where he spent most of his younger years, after a hard-fought and successful campaign.

Dirky, Point out the racist portion of my post, then go screw yourself.
Moron!

Every time some fool throws out the racist claim it weakens the term. Ever hear the story of the boy that cried wolf? Of course you have, you're white. In my old neighborhood it was the boy that cried rat. Once you become President there is no more white, black or brown, you're the President. If every time someone says anything about the President some cracker on his self righteous horse starts claiming racism, we will never get anything done. Back off of the racist thing until it's warranted.

There should be a published budget for the first family, Rep. or Dem. An open account is a dangerous thing. Some estimates have the cost of housing, security, travel, etc. for the President's family at $2 billion per year. That's less than the price of a cup of coffee, for every man, woman and child in our country.

Less than the price of cup of coffee for 311 million people? You must be on O's side; I could buy a whole pound of coffee for every citizen for less than $2 billion, very good coffee; of course you'd have To Work to Make It.

@ Dan S....and until you absolutely disprove that God exists with your so-called science...God's Word and it's authority will stand based on your own discertation of reasoning...you said it...not me...so if your gonna spew nonsense and attack christian foundational beliefs...i'm not changing my reasoning on God and creationism because your science claims to know more about it nor am I gonna feel guilty for my beliefs because you have a differing opinion so stop playing the victimization and anti religiosity card...it's getting as old and tattered as the race card....

Dave - If you can absoluty prove the existence of god, you have to bow to the facts of science. If I am wrong, I will eat my words and publically apologize in what ever way or fashion to your satisfaction. Until then, let's stick to the Atheist motto, "You keep religion out of my schools and I'll keep thinking out of your Church."

@ Free Thought Troy...when you prove the absolute infallability of science then I will answer your question...science was the topic brought up used to attack religiosity and it's fundamuntal core beliefs and pigeon holed a political party. So...since that was the point...you prove your end first and then I will answer yours...let the circular reasoning begin...

Science can be wrong. Yes. This is true. Science, unlike religion, has never claimed to be infallable. I also never claimed Religion has taken over a political party. Turn on Fox News. That ship has sailed if you ask me.

I attack religiosity because it is absurd. With all the provable and verifiable evidence documented, it is amazing to me religion (and/or the politcal party that seems intent on defending it) sticks their collective heads in the sand and deny reality.

Besides, if one wants circular arguments, open the Christion Bible. It's full of it (pun intended)

Free Thought Troy, so by your words you know it all, interesting, well I truly believe that us religious people still outnumber your atheist society, so I say we keep our religious thoughts within our schools, majority rules, Besides it was belief in God by the forefathers that was the basis for this great free thinking nation! Perhaps you would be better served by vacating your arrogant presence here in America and head to greener pastures, perhaps the new Russia, Egypt or Afghanistan.

RIchard. This country was actually founded by Diest (forerunners to Atheists). Majority also ruled when it came to slavery and civil rights. majority may rule, but that doesn not mean they are right.
The fact is this country, no matter your opinion or a majority of opion, is a secular gov. I don't believe it's out of line to hold the country accountable to that.

Besides, Afghanistan is a fundamental country based on religious doctrine. A Freethinker wouldn't be served there. A fundamentalist who thinks a majority of religious thinking population should base thier laws on religious believe would be a better fit.

Obama and his Super PACs were outspent by Romney and his by a long shot. When the loser spends more on the campaign than the winner, it's pretty idiotic to make the "bought the election" claim. But please don't let that stop you.

Par for the course for the Democratic party the party of the condoms. Rasing taxes on the so called two percent achieves nothing. Suggest you read todays article in the Investors Business Daily re Buffet and how the rich avoid taxes with all their tax attorneys and hi paid accountants. You kid yourself if you believe that Obamas tax the 2% is anything more than lying with political only motivation. The little people continue to be taken advantage of by big government lies. Take it from a former IRS officer.

" I guess it shouldn't surprise me coming from a party that continues to reject confirmed science (climate change and homosexuality)."

Confirmed is not the same as absolute. Nothing is absolute, is it? We confirm a variety of ideas, thoughts, processes only to discover down the road that our confirmation was incorrect.

Absolutely, Daniel.

What I have a problem with is the more studies are done, the more these theories are confirmed. Until they are dis-proven, we need to act on the evidence we have.

We can't deny the data because maybe, at some point down the line, these things are disproven.

Well Troy, whose studies do I believe? There are plenty of conflicting ones on almost any topic out there. Including both you mentioned. Why did we have a warm period long before the current society? They haven't proven why that happened, why not? Maybe because, it's the same cause as now and it would dispel what they are trying to convince us of? They've also made statements that say it would be decades before significant positive effects would be seen. I seriously doubt mankinds' science has the ability to project what the effects will be in 10 or 20 years. We can't even get the weather correct the next day quite often.

The majority of people who don't work voted to STEAL the minoritys money .. of course they voted to steal thier money you stoopid moron

How this man defeated Sen Feingold will always remain a mystery and real low point to the intellegence level in our state.

Does he even realize how ridiculous he is? I fear he does not.

Hey if you move out of state .. the WI IQ will go up quite a bit

Perhaps not Reagan, but Bush one yes, Clinton was a do nothing kind of guy except for his sexual escapades which quite honestly was the best thing to happen, that is that he did nothing. Free Thought,your belief in Fenigold speaks for itself as far as your intellect goes, at least Johnson has integrity and ethics and he listens. Feingold never listened a but instead only would come back with his agenda. And hey, McCain-Feingold, what an intellectual shortfall.

Richard, Johnson may listen, I can't "speak" to that. As far as integrity and ethics, the man claims to be an entrepreneur and he's not (unless taking an executive position at a company your brother-in-law founded to serve your father-in-law's company is considered entrepreneurialism). Here's a link to some of my own previous and excellent comments on the subject of Ron Johnson: http://shorewood.patch.com/articles/ron-johnson-says-romney-is-the-honest-candidate-for-wisconsin

Bren, Read your prior comments on Ron Johnson which may or may not have credence based on replies to your input. I listen to what the man says and how he says it and find he has principled responses to tough questions along with humility which I find to be totally missing from your choice, Obama. Also, I embrace your thought that the only way to get the best candidates is to do research but how can you do research on a person who purposely keeps his past in the dark which includes his grades and time in higher education. At least we had Bush's records to peruse and make an informed choice, the same was true for Romney and most other candidates, Democrat or Republican that preceded Obama. As for health, we also had the records of previous candidates as well. So now where does your research come in for Obama, a lawyer who worked on cases that brought undue wealth to the law firm he worked for while the clients got a pittance. Oh yes and health, well by my viewing of current photos of Obama I detect a health problem coming, just a suspicion on my part based on years of doing photography, to me not releasing information on one's health, education or other brings thoughts of a person hiding something for fear of the reaction to the facts.

Classic example of the First Amendment. Mr. Nugent has every right to say this - no matter how completely stupid it is.

I wonder how many GOP will condemn this statement? Yeah - I think zero, too. Of course, considering the polls, who voted Democrat, and the continued supression of the vote, let's not be shocked some idiot TeaPublican actually proposes this. I wonder if WI Sen. Johnson will take a stab? This sounds ridiculous enough to be right up his ally.

I wonder how many people are really Republicans or Democrats? I wonder how many follow their party ideals like lemmings and do not use their own mind? Glad I am not dedicated to either of the 3 parties, but only to what is better for all.

As ridiculous as a foreign national being a US President??

I don't know Johnny, as ridiculous for holding on the false and punch line fictional accusation that Obama is really from a foreign country.

Honeslty - please give it a rest. It's absurd and only brings an otherwise rational discussion down.

Free Thought, As for rational discussion let's stop the Republicans are idiots and stupid talk and have some real valid conversation without name calling which is totally childish in nature.

Richard - of course you are right. Name calling never moves the conversation forward. I apologize. It is tough when I hear some of the irrational conservatives speak. Please note I said some conservatives - not all. Not all conservatives are irrational. Just like not all Liberals are educated (or even have not-crazy ideas. There are Liberals who have some bat-sh!t crazy ideas. I admit).

Giving Reagan credit for the prosperity of the Clinton administration - trying to take the right to vote away from any American, is flat out wrong. It's not name calling. It is the truth.

I will stick to that; however, Richard. You made a good point.

Hey Johnny

You are most likely one of these silly folks who think ACORN is alive and well. ha ha.

@HuffPostPol

Nearly half of GOP voters think 2012 election was stolen by organization that no longer exists http://huff.to/SvNDaU

Lovely. Good work Pres. Obama.

Yup the plausible lier is at it again and again, playing on the ignorance and stupidity of his constituency. come on, enough of the song and dance about tax the rich, really, someone making $200,000 is rich, maybe but probably not especially if you live in CA, NJ or NY. How about really addressing the super rich true billionaires who would continue to avoid paying their fair share under the current tax code whit all its loop holes for the super rich. The $200,000 group are closer to the top of the middle class scale and truly will feel pain under Oblama, oops Obama, real tax code change is what is needed to have the Gates and Buffets of the world pay up! a wealth tax on billionaires would work in my book but perhaps a fair flat tax where all pay based on their gross income would be simple and sweet, something my IRS trainer had in his hip pocket way back in 1965.

Actually, Richard, I think if you look at the article itself you'll see why he called them in...

"President Barack Obama met with Rachel Maddow, Al Sharpton and other "influential progressives" on Tuesday as part of his campaign to sell the public on the need to extend the Bush middle-class tax cuts."

Obviously, HuffPo took the marching orders to heart. It's obvious the Administration wants to focus less on its plans to increase taxes for the wealthy and, instead, focus on extending the Bush tax cuts for the middle class. Not everyone, including many who don't fall into the prospective targets of his increases, is sold on taxing the rich as a solution. However, it's pretty hard to find anyone who's going to disagree with preserving the Bush tax cuts for the middle class. By focusing on that portion of their plan, the argument will be that anyone who opposes their plan is against preserving tax cuts for the middle class.

When I first caught the headline on AOL that he had had a "secret meeting", I was actually hoping that he and some of the opposition had met to begin working out something in private, which is they only way any sort of a agreement is going to be reached. Instead, it appears he's insistent on trying to negotiate something in public. It's not going to work.

Maybe Grover Norquist should change the pledge to no tax increases for the rich instead of no tax increases period. All signs are pointing toward a Republican Party (most to all of which as signed the pledge) that has no problem increasing the taxes on the middle class in order to protect their true constituency - the weathly

Free thought, Whose constituency is the rich, let's see, Obama supporters include the CEO of Starbucks, the CEO of Costco, good ole Buffet and of course Bill Gates amongst others, wonder if they fit into the mold of the rich. You can believe the snake oil of Obama and the Demos but I chose to be a true free thinker and deduce whose lying to whom, like some old wives tales it's not merely the Repubs but rather the Dems who have the support of the uber rich and that includes the likes of a whole host of entertainers and athletes and lawyers too. You see if Obama really was for the middle class he would have chosen to increase the tax rates for the multi millionaire or billionaires as the top 2% and would embrace real elimination of true tax avoidance loopholes in the tax code like the 1031 exchange rule for real estate tycos but no he embraces elimination of legitimate tax deductions which hit the middle class hard!!!

Bob McBride, I do have to agree with your response, but feel that like many others, the group Obama met with in my humble opinion are merely lapdogs for him and his plausible lies and snake oil. He really doesn't care about the middle class other than using as many of them that believe his lies to move forward his agenda. See my retort to Free Thought.

I don't disagree with you on that, Richard. Obviously if he wants to change the tenor of the public dialogue, he's going to go to those he feels will abide by his wishes. He seems to want to do anything but sit down with the opposition in Congress and hash things out - as have most of his successful predecessors. He seems to think he can energize public opinion in his favor, thus forcing his opposition to comply with their wishes and agree to his terms. Essentially, he's once again back in campaign mode - where he's most comfortable, apparently. Great for elections - not so much when it comes to actually performing the duties of the office itself.

Nothing he's done so far will serve the best interests of the middle class in the long run. As for this particular effort to change the dialogue, it assumes the folks he has enlisted have some sort of credibility beyond their regular, respective audiences of whom it can assumed already support his agenda

Maybe they figured differently:

300 million people in USA & $1.5 billion 'saved';about $5.00 bucks per person.

Our insurance costs are up 20+% for this year and next year, too;nothing saved.

From today's USA Today:

"The unemployment rate fell to a four-year low of 7.7% from 7.9% as 350,000 Americans left the labor force, which includes people working and looking for work, the Labor Department said."

Just another sign that Obama has left the working class with no hope.

The addition of 146,000 NET new jobs is another sign Obama has left the working class with no hope? What color is the sky in your world?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/01/493849/obama-bush-jobs-record/

Please notice the chart from the US Dept. of Labor Statistics vs. the "report" from the New American who boasts such friends as the John Birch Society

FTT: You have to take into consideration that government jobs do nothing for the economy. Even if they would work for free, they contribute nothing to our system, pay no taxes (because they cost more than they pay in), and are a liability not an asset.
With food stamps at an all time high, I would assume more people were hired for that program.
A Government worker is not a producer. Producer's are what stimulate the economy, and pay taxes as part of their compensation.
If everyone worked for the government and payed 99% of their wage to taxes, the US would go broke.

@Young

Do you have a reference for your stat?

"73% of New Jobs Created in Last 5 Months Are in Government..."

Craig - I honestly don't understand. So from what you are telling me, teachers, firefighters and police officers aren't producers that stimulate the economy?

FTT: I mean no disrespect to them but yes, they do not produce anything for the economy. They are a cost to the Government. They can not produce a profit, so the taxes they pay are not reducing liabilities for the US balance sheet.
As an illustration, imagine the Government as a business.
Imagine a business paying employees to pick up trash. The wage is $10/hour. To fund the business, they ask each wage earner to pay the company part of their wage. How long will the business survive?

Craig - Ok, I think I am beginning to understand your point. Please correct me if you disagree, but I would submit they do not produce for the gov. They are, in fact, a cost on gov. balance sheet - much like the bus. model in your example. I would suggest that these folks buy houses, buy cars, purchase groceries, etc. I will argue these purches do help the economy as a whole.

FTT: Just to clarify, they do purchase things that is part of the economy. But the economic benefit is meaninless in an all Government business model.
If there is no private business with profits, then there is no people contributing to the economy in a beneficial manner.
Conversely, if we all worked for the Government (regardless of what the pay rate is)- then the economic benefit from our wages would be void. ( there is no profit created ) Our Government would cease to exist because there could never be a positive cash flow.
Government employees contribute to the economy as a whole. This is only because there is private business to give their purchases some meaning.
In short we need to add private sector jobs, adding Government jobs will not help our situation esp. with the fiscal cliff looming.

Craig -

Now I am beginning to worry. I think we are actuall on the same page.

Scary.

FTT: We agree on some things and agree to disagree on others. If the yahoos in Washington actually fuctioned like this, we may actually get something usefull done there.
We all have been witness to snarky comments fueling a fire to absolute hatred. My biggest worry is fighting amongst ourself as opposed to fighting the idiots in Washington.

I agree completely. I will take it one step further. I think not only the folks in Washington need to take it down a few notches (both sides-both sides), I also think, to a person, the folks in Madison need to take the cue of those of us willing to work towards common sence solutions to our very-real problems

Seventy-three percent of the new civilian jobs created in the United States over the last five months are in government, according to official data published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In June, a total of 142,415,000 people were employed in the U.S, according to the BLS, including 19,938,000 who were employed by federal, state and local governments.

By November, according to data BLS released today, the total number of people employed had climbed to 143,262,000, an overall increase of 847,000 in the six months since June.

In the same five-month period since June, the number of people employed by government increased by 621,000 to 20,559,000. These 621,000 new government jobs created in the last five months equal 73.3 percent of the 847,000 new jobs created overall.

"Public sector employment is now down 608,000 workers since January 2009, a 2.7 percent decline. At the same point in President Bush’s term, public sector employment was up 3.7 percent. If, over the past 40 months, public sector employment had grown at the same pace as it did in President Bush’s first term, there would be 1.4 million additional people at work right now. That’d be enough to bring the unemployment rate down by nearly a full percentage point."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/01/493849/obama-bush-jobs-record/

Troy, now you are getting at the real issue. If you were getting a big fat paycheck and pension for doing absolutely nothing....why would you want to solve problems?
If you actually solved problems, then you would be putting yourself out of a cushy job.
When I say 'you', I mean our elected people. Not actually you.

Maybe I'll run for office, Criag. Then I could have a cushy job. Great benefits and pension. Do pretty much nothing...

I could run as a Democrat, too. I think as many of those cats coast by, too.

FTT: Keep talking and you might even get my vote!

Business owners have no faith in Obama, tsk tak....Right to Work will keep some working in Wisconsin.

I thought the Federal Gov. could not create jobs. I thought it was Gov. Walker that "Opened WI for Business" ? So which is it?

Why is it jobless claims are dropping in some states & not WI?

Is it federal policy, or could it be a state and gov. bent on rejecting gov. aid in an idealogical stubborness that just does not work (pun intended)?

Where did I say anything about the federal gov. creating jobs? So I guess the answer is both.

Don't know, it has not been reported to my knowlege.

Could be, please connect the dots to gov aid.

$23 mil. for high speed internet in schools
$810 for high speed rail - of course, six mo. later the gov. asked for stim. money to improve the rail system.

So?

$16 trillion going on $21 trillion in debt, increased taxes on business owners, massive cuts to military spending, unknown health care policy, partisan politics.....
I know what is affecting my business/hiring decisions, it's not rejection of a choo choo.

I thought the green energy jobs were the solution. I don't think that having a federal budget would hurt either.

Hannity is a big propagandist-and folks are wising up this fact:

With Sean Hannity Getting Stomped In the Ratings Fox News Attacks Rachel Maddow

Jason Easley
December 8th, 2012

Since election day, Rachel Maddow has been beating Sean Hannity in the key demo ratings. Fox News has responded with a juvenile attack on Maddow.

There is something happening in cable news that can no longer be ignored. MSNBC is seriously challenging Fox News. Specifically, Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O’Donnell are regularly beating their Fox News competition in the key 25-54 demo. Last week, Maddow beat Hannity, 378,000 viewers to 352,000 in the demo.

Hannity’s margin over Maddow in total viewers is inflated by the fact that Fox News is available in more homes than MSNBC. Bill O’Reilly’s show is the only thing keeping Fox News ahead in the primetime demo. If anything ever happens to O’Reilly, Fox News will be in deep trouble....

The biggest sign yet that Fox News knows they have a problem was how they responded to Rachel Maddow being nominated for a Grammy for her spoken word version of Drift........

http://www.politicususa.com/sean-hannity-stomped-rating-fox-news-attacks-rachel-maddow.html

Mominmist, MSNBC, really, just proves what an ignorant corrupt mindset exists within that age group provided your stats are close to believable. By the way where on this earth did you come up with Hannity from my post, or did you even read it, you may have a case of what I refer to as talkitis or lack of listening ability. MNSBC provides a perfect example of a media outlet completely in the tank for Obama along with terrible verbiage that spews forth from the mouths of some of their presenters. MSNBC is also good for people who embrace the aura of lying and deception. As for Hannity, I am not a fan of his but do enjoy others on Fox news radio stations.

Another one for you Richard.

@Progress2day CNN Anchor Denounces GOP Senator For Balancing Budget On Backs Of ‘Nation’s Poor Children’ thkpr.gs/VxndUX #wipolitics

Momonmist, like your far left demos, you to have your head in the sand, wake up before its too late, we are all in trouble with the political antics that both parties are performing at this time concerning the so called fiscal cliff and raising taxes on the so called wealthy, it's all a sham using wordy snake oil tactics of the past to hypnotize constituents meanwhile dodging the truth of the matter. As you may or may not tell from this harangue I do not embrace either parties politics, no one is telling it like it is, the truth. Obama's stubborn repetitive speeches about taxing the rich solves nothing, the man does not know how to compromise and could not without being truthful and if he were to tell the truth it would ruin him, the other side act like sheepish weak numbskulls. There's absolutely no real leadership coming out of Congress nor the White House. No guts no glory, we all lose except for the very wealthy billionaires who get out!

morninmist:

Cut the gov. some slack, ok? I mean, when one spends so much time attacking workers' rights, women's rights and voters' rights, there just aren't enough hours left in the day for the economy. I know, I know. That is what he campaigned on - twice. But I guess we all need to realize by this point an ultra conservative agenda will always trump campaign promises.

I suppose it depends on what promises are made, and to whom. Through that lens, Scott Walker is serving his benefactors well and they are willing to invest heavily in his continued service.

Go Gait, right on Gait, and that hits right at the middle class and who does Obama claim to want to help, wow more deception, again plausible lies from the left, along with tax the top 2% rich people, again rich people know how to avoid paying taxes i.e. the Buffets and Gates of this country!!!

@Go Galt....Funny how general inflation hasn't risen except for fuel, food and healthcare. Inflation is an easy fix, raise interest rates. Comparing us to the Weimar Republic is ludicrous. If we don't get revenue and cut spending then we have to worry.

You sir know nothing about economics or business. You sound like a 12 year old child, raise interest rates? My, who educated you? Sue them for malpractice!

@Go Alt...Sorry about the fact that my comment appears so juvenile. Interest rates have been unusually low, with Alan Greenspan leading the charge. Oh, BTW, Greenspan, a disciple and close friend of Ayn Rand, admitted he was wrong about his philosophical assumptions.

When you come for me, union idiot, my two best friends and I, Smith & Wesson will be ready to give you greetings.

Go easy, Go Gait, the person is definitely handicapped in his education and display of naivety, enjoys being led by the pied piper lying smoke and mirrors likes of Obama's crowd!!!

Here you go Go Gait!

@politico
.@BarackObama tweet most retweeted ever: politi.co/TTkGHg
3:12pm Tues Dec 11
Obama wins Twitter
Four more years. twitter.com/BarackObama/st… — Barack Obama (@BarackObama) November 7, 2012It's official: the Obama campaign tweet hailing victory on election night won the year on Twitter. It also...
POLITICO @politico

Go Galt, instead of threatening morninmist with a Smith & Wesson, why don't you bring a copy of atheist passport bride Ayn Rand's 1957 screed, "Atlas Shrugged?" 'mist might fall to the ground in laughter over Rand's ponderous prose and middle-school level mysticism.

And you won't get risk charges of harassment and making threats on a public comment board.

Ayn Rand sidenote: In addition to trying to first name her philosophy "Existentialism" and failing to do so because the name was already taken, Rand successfully recycled the character name of John Galt from a book she read as a child.

Bren:

What does Ayn Rand's atheism have to do with anything? It almost seems as if you are trying to use it as an insult...

Bren: I agree with pretty much everything you say.

But in this case, I need to agree with CowDung. Ann Rand is coo coo for Coco Coco Puffs crazy. This I do agree. But the fact she was atheist didn't make her so. Atheism doen't proport to one way of political thinking or the other. Just like the evils of Communism wasn't due to their atheism, same with Atlas Shrugged.

Being Atheist shouldn't be an insult. I personally wear it as a badge of honor.

Bren simply has a problem with educated intelligent women like Ms Rand.

Actually, Galt - Rand was out of her mind.

The woman had problems. Atlas Shrigged was the typical reflection. Way-way-way out there. The fact anyone takes that piece seriously will always amaze me.

The only folks out of their minds are folks like you who want to steal from the productive and become wards of the state. Enjoy your cheese, while you still can steal it.

Social Security and Medicare moocher Ayn Rand's reputed peccadilloes and emotional issues inspire no personal resonance. I am however amused by those so-called "family values" folks who embrace pro-choice Rand's "teachings." Her actions and beliefs, in significant ways, represent the precise antithesis of what these individuals claim to admire.

A peccadillo of mine is to enjoy the cognitive dissonance.

Bren:

It's rather amusing how you (and many other on the Left) seem to use adjectives like 'atheist' and 'pro-choice' to try to stir some level of dislike as if conservatives should somehow be repulsed by people who might hold some beliefs or opinions that are different from their own...

And it is equally amusing to harvest, savor, and catalogue the epithets and derogatory remarks of the "people" you suggest who are confronted by "some beliefs or opinions that are different from their own..." I disagree that these "people" are conservatives, however. Such stridency and hypocrisy is not representative of the true conservatives of my acquaintance.

@Free Thought Troy....The fact that Ayn Rand was an atheist has nothing to do with her immorality. Her philosophy has been totally discredited. What is ironic is all the supposed Christians who advocate her philosophy but don't admit the hypocrisy of following her and claiming to be Christians at the same time. If anyone knows much about her, she was a spot on crazy hedonist, who cared nothing for others.

@Go Galt....Sorry, but Ayn Rand's education was very limited. First and foremost she was a novelist and playwright. Believing in her dribble is like believing that orcs are real creatures.

There was no hypocrisy in Rand’s recouping the contributions she had been forced to make to those programs – for decades, in the case of Social Security. She never maintained that one should surrender expropriated property to the State. Moreover, some years before age 65, she publicly announced that any opponents of such programs should recoup their forced contributions. And she did so. She said what she would do, it is consistent with her philosophy, and she did it.

Lyle Ruble,

I have followed objectivism for many decades, it has enabled me to amass much wealth so much so that I retired in my early 50's. Enjoy being poor my friend,or worse, a ward of the state.

@Go Galt....LOL, Objectivism allowed you to become wealthy? I don't give a damn about wealth; it doesn't make you a better human being or a moral agent. Besides, as long as you hide behind a nom de plume, you can claim anything you want and no one can check out the veracity of your statement.

@ Lyle, Your nom de plume comment made me laugh, it made me think "who is John Galt?".

@Bren

I flagged the comment as inappropriate but Patch apparently approves of dangerous internet bullying of members.

...............

Bren
3:32 pm on Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Go Galt, instead of threatening morninmist with a Smith & Wesson,
..............

Hardly a threat or bullying. A stupid posting, but morninmist is guilty of that 99.687% of the time.

Greg, I'm shocked to find myself disagreeing with you on two counts, when does that happen? ; )

Firstly: 'morninmist doesn't post "stupid" comments. Not in the slightest. You're not understanding or appreciating them is, as they say, "on you."

Secondly: "When you come for me, union idiot, my two best friends and I, Smith & Wesson will be ready to give you greetings" is an overt threat as written. There is nothing within the context of the post to suggest that Smith & Wesson is not what it is universally understood to be, i.e., a weapon. However, as Mr. Ruble points out, "Go Galt" is a pseudonym so those on the "front end" can't identify him/her. I will point out that Patch has his contact information. If we can't improve the quality of his reading material we can at least insist upon non-threatening discourse here on Patch.

Smith and Wesson are my two black labs....what did you think I was saying?

Bren:

Morninmist does indeed post stupid comments. They consist of random twitter talking points rather than an actual opinion or discussion. I tend to just 'filter' hi/her posts out and ignore them.

Second, as far as the 'threat' goes, it seems to be a simple declaration of self defense, rather than an actual threat. He states that if someone comes to get him, he will defend himself. He states a hypothetical situation and response to that situation. He isn't stating that he intends to seek out Morninmist and do harm to him/her--that would be a threat.

CowDung
I would have given you more credit. Now you defend a rude bully post by GoGait. Just whow!!

..........
CowDung
1:39 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Bren:

Morninmist does indeed post stupid comments. They consist of random twitter talking points rather than an actual opinion or discussion. I tend to just 'filter' hi/her posts out and ignore them.

Second, as far as the 'threat' goes, it seems to be a simple declaration of self defense, rather than an actual threat. He states that if someone comes to get him, he will defend himself. He states a hypothetical situation and response to that situation. He isn't stating that he intends to seek out Morninmist and do harm to him/her--that would be a threat.

I'm not saying that Galt's post wasn't rude, was appropriate and/or wasn't stupid. I'm pointing out that it wasn't actually a threat.

If he had one what???

Craig - I think it's a dig on thought. Meaning if I had a thought, it would die of lonliness because that would be the only one I have.

It is a pretty out of the blue insult. Ah, well. If that's the worst thing anyone says of me, then I guess I'll be out a head.

Besides, if I took anything Tansandy seriously, then I would be in trouble

: )

Have to admire Tansandy's use of sentence structure, however. It is unique!

; )

FTT: I thought it may have been a case of mistaken identity. I would hate to see the wrong person tarred and feathered for no apparent reason.

hey AWD

Conservatives lost--and will lose again!

John Nichols @NicholsUprising 2m
Voter response to Boehner handling of fiscal-cliff: 24% approve while 54% disapprove (WaPo-ABC poll). He has NO mandate. @thenation @edshow

@AWD....What, they didn't teach American history in dental school? Al Capone was locked up before prohibition ended.

I dunno Lyle, lots of organized criminals continue to reap their profits while behind bars. It's not inconceivable to think that his income from bootlegging continued after he went to prison...

@CowDung...It's not inconceivable that he continued to receive benefits from his bootlegging. However, his rackets weren't in unions. He was more into prostitution, gambling and numbers. I went to college with his nephew.

After protests in Michigan because of ALEC Right to Work for Less legislation, that fine group may be laying low. Not pretty when a former congressman is pepper sprayed. Is it going too far to suggest that with the presence of Americans for Prosperity, and special interest legislation (ALEC), and the subsequent fury of Michigan citizens, that some members of the Tea Party have instigated civil unrest? Physical harm and unpopular legislation are the result.

While I'm pleased at the fiscally and socially sensible decision not to pursue ending same-day registration in WI, I surmise that this isn't the last we will hear on the issue. This, and Right to Work for Less legislation will probably be back-burnered for a few months until the furor dies down across the lake (sorry Diane H.).

What is done can always be undone. If bad legislation is passed it can be repaired.

Of course the best option is to keep regressive legislation from being passed in the first place. Michigan has learned, having rejected the Emergency Manager law that resulted in local elections becoming virtually null in a number troubled communities. (http://www.freep.com/article/20121107/NEWS15/121107008/Michigan-s-toughened-emergency-manager-law-rejected)

Link to Pepper Spraying: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/11/former-congressman-pepper-sprayed-in-michigan/

I think that the 'sky is falling' over-reactive mentality that seems to be common with the left is what is responsible for instigating civil unrest. It's not much different than what we went through with the budget repair bill...

And I'm also going to provide this link to Salon.com, which places ALEC's cookie-cutter bill alongside Michigan's HB4003 and HB4054. In case anyone still questions the degree to which this corporation-focused special interest group has been "guiding" policy in this country.

Final question: Does placing words in capital letters really make them your own?

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/11/michigans_right_to_work_bill_cribs_alec/singleton/

Bren

As others have pointed out--@GovWalker has NOT promised to veto any Same day legislation that gets to his desk. Joel Kleefish and other TeaGOP are itching to pass the ALEC agenda in WI.

It is a wait and see game right now.

And as I typed, here was Joel....

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/walker-says-ending-sameday-registration-too-early-i780lu5-183182971.html

"But as Walker began to walk away from pushing for ending same-day registration, Rep. Joel Kleefisch (R-Oconomowoc) announced he and Sen. Alberta Darling (R-River Hills) were working on a bill that would end it.

Kleefisch said Wednesday that his staff was "doing research on the components of the same-day registration law."

Glad to see that Bren and morninmist have all of this free time on their goobermint jobs to post on Patch all day. What hard workers they are!

No Go Galt, I don't work for the "goobermint." I work hard for the collectivist town of Galt's Gulch, recruiting creative leaders from around the world toward the goal of creating a massive strike. Once that's done I'm going to go on the radio and talk for a long time about the dangers of collectivism. So you see, much to do.

@Bren....Do you think that Go Galt is a reincarnated Alfred or Oak Creek Resident?

I suspect so, Mr. Ruble. The "voice" is quite distinctive. ; )

Really, Obamas approval rating up 11 points hmmm, wonder where they rounded up the people who took that survey, sure didn't talk to me or any of my friends. Probably all were vetted for their political beliefs first or maybe they went to the zoo, that's a good place for polling candidates, you can lead them to the promised land.