It's Cinco de Mayo. If your going to do insults, at least get the name right.

Then, Christmas is also a fake holiday, celebrating the birth of man whose existance has not been proven!!!!! My first assignment in education--'bout 35 years ago
was at an almost entirely black school. Being an Anglo, I was raised under segregation in Texas. Every year I worked there, a group of teachers always set up
this celebration. And that's "Cinco de Maya"--You need another high school education, especially since you missed the first.

What's it to ya, Steve? Does the post office close on Kwanzaa? Who cares if people want to put up decorations and have a party for whatever reason?

Stupidity is a cancer, mock it at every moment.

As expected you get a ton of emotion but little to back it up. It is a made up holiday. Period. Some guy speaks up and you go all nuts, but you have no idea what you are going nuts about.

I love how they ran to the token blacks for comments, but they were all unavailable. Probably all out celebrating Christmas. They'll be back though to jump on the race beat down.

Actually Cinco De Mayo is a Mexican Holiday. it's a celebration of the victory over the French.

I wonder what inspires this overwheeming arrogance to decide what customs followed byh other people are fake or not? Is it hate? fear? just plain stupidity? Talking about dividing Black and White people...he is the perfect example of what he preaches.

Finally someone speaks up? I didn't know there was a Kwanzaa emergency. I bet you couldn't name two black people that celebrate it so why is there a dilemma?

I frankly don't see the problem with schools mentioning that there is a holiday called Kwanzaa, any more than with schools mentioning the there is a holiday called Chanukkah or Eid, no matter how many people celebrate them.

If liberalism is cancer than your IGNORANCE IS DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please complete your GED before posting future comments.

Steve and and Glen aka Mooney & Gooney!! two creepy cootie boys.

All of these holidays are made up. What does that have to do with liberalism?

Steve, you are a cancer.

Jackie Bell, the existence of Jesus is even documented by the Romans. Yes, he did live!!!

More of the same I see. No defense of this so called holiday just personal attacks and lots of white guilt.

As the war on Christmas continues nationwide we are some how supposed to accept a racist celebration made up by a fellon.

Cinco de Mayo isn't a US holiday. I'm an African-American and I kind of agree with this guy. Not many blacks celebrate Kwanzaa. We do Christmas and move on.... What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal to him. It's not a national holiday and he's not losing money (which is why most white men complain), so I have no idea of why it even matters to him. This is a free speech nation. So while I agree with him, I also disagree. Why? Because I can do that! God bless America.

The root of Kwanzaa is racism. It's a holiday built on racial identity and racial divide. It's sold as pro-black, which is racist by definition. "Pro-black" is to white folk like "white power" is to black folk. Most black folk don't celebrate it, at least not in my family. It's a holiday of self-inflicted segregation that does nothing to merge people into the melting pot of America; in fact it's more like adding a overcooked partitioned-off brownie to the TV Dinner of America.

Let me guess Steve. You're white and you don't have much association with non-whites. Am I right?

can't take you seriously steve. cinco de mayo actually happened.

Please stop lumping people into a pile........generalization is a cancer, fight it at every moment.

and now Steve, go put tinsel on your pagan tree and drink your pagan wassail. Oh yes, be sure and give your self lots of costly presents. That's what your holiday is right? Commercialism with a touch of mistletoe. Ho Ho Ho Steve. and a racist bah humbug to you.

I believe you are referring to Christmas. Where hundreds of millions of Christians celebrate the birth of their Jesus Christ. It seems far from a holiday where you remember choking bidges with electrical cords and further segregating our culture.

But to each his own.

THey are all made up and that includes Christmas and Hanukka so whay not have Kwanza

Whether one celebrates Kwanzaa or not, it is the principles of it that are important. Anglo, Jewish, and Muslim Americans celebrate the Fourth of July, Columbus Day, Memorial Day, Hanukkah, Christmas, Ramadan, Easter, and a ton of other holidays they have invented or subscribed to for religious purposes. So what is the problem? Some African American derelict posted "I don't know of two African Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa..." Well, subtract that figure to one. Because I am African American and I believe in the Seven Principles of the Nguzo Saba upon which Kwanzaa is established. I am not Egyptian but I believe in the Seven Principles of MAAT. Many African Americans especially those who live in Texas celebrate "Juneteenth" but does that make it wrong? Of course not. What we continue to witness among right wing conservative white Republicans is a disgusting backlash because Barack Obama won the presidential reelection. I bet if you ask Romney, he would tell you that he celebrates Kwanzaa, if for no other reason the principle of "Ujamaa" (Cooperative Economics). He did his best to put the manufacturing industry in this country out of business and line his pockets with money that he "cooperatively" put in offshore bank accounts. As far as Mr. Grothman and his statement about Kwanzaa being "slapped down" the only thing that should be "slapped down" is himself! By the way, ask Mr. Grothman if he celebrates "Rosh Hashana" and I'll bet you if he tells the truth he will say yes!

Hey JACKIE BELL, it's YOU who are incorrect, as evidence of the existance and ressurection of the historical Jesus is overwhelming, see http://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/was-jesus-just-myth
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/scholarly-articles/historical-jesus
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/popular-articles/jesus-of-nazareth

Hey Steve,
God forgive you , because I don't. I think you are a piece of worthless human skin. You republicans think it is all about you. Remember the teaching, it should be all about us, mankind. Please don't come back and disagree. You are suppose to be a good little christian, because you are a good little republican. If you are not a christian YOU CAN NOT BE A GOOD LITTLE republican, because only christians can be republicans. Like I said God forgive, because I don't. Drop dead

.....ignorance is a cancer also Stevie, fighting it all the time........

So Kate S. If a black man loses money he doesn't complain? It is only white men that complain about losing money?

Wow Jim, you're an angry little person. And God will forgive you.

O racist white devil don't understand black or African culture at all. this state Senator need to resign now. Rev. Raymond Brown National Action Now contact info. brownfightback@gmail.com

Rev. Raymond Brown, I Thank God I have never moved me to visit your church, your racism, at its worst. God doesn't look at color and neither should you. We are all his children. You are not fit to lead or teach his word.

Liberalism is not a cancer. Self predicated nationalism aka ethnocentrism is. I'm not branding the man as a racist. I'm saying he's misguided, just like you. Ever do any research into the so called Holidays that we celebrate? Well, I have. Other then Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday, Kwanzaa is the only other African American Holiday that we honor and celebrate in this country. Furthermore, Kwanzaa is spiritual, cultural, and blends acts, thoughts, and prayers into community outreach. In other words, it empowers, strengthens, and cultivates. It is based upon life. As for the Holidays, we celebrate, many of them are based upon slaughter and death. Christmas is no longer about the birth of Christ, but about the dawning of St. Nick (old Nick, old Harry, Satan); St. Valentine's Day is the day in which a Roman Saint - St. Valentinus was killed and the day Capone pulled off the St. Valentines Day Massacre; Halloween or All Hallows Eve worships Samhein (Satan); Thanksgiving was followed by the massacre of the indians in the area of Plymouth Rock; So don't preach to me about fake holidays, when the real holidays we celebrate are nothing more than sacrifices of peoples deaths

"Kate S
6:04 pm on Tuesday, January 1, 2013
Cinco de Mayo isn't a US holiday. I'm an African-American and I kind of agree with this guy. Not many blacks celebrate Kwanzaa. We do Christmas and move on.... What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal to him. It's not a national holiday and he's not losing money (which is why most white men complain), so I have no idea of why it even matters to him. This is a free speech nation. So while I agree with him, I also disagree. Why? Because I can do that! God bless America."

God Bless you Kate S. The most intelligent comment I've read yet.

Steve, chill out, have a few more drinks, and get back to your meaningless life.

Abel Hernandez
4:11 pm on Tuesday, January 1, 2013
Actually Cinco De Mayo is a Mexican Holiday. it's a celebration of the victory over the French.

No...it's not! Nobody in mexico celebrates this. It is a fake holiday perpetuated by the Mexican beer companies. It started in the early 80s.

dont put a label on liberals,im a liberal and i think its a B---S--- HOLIDAY,ill never figure out why african-americans honor the continent that sold them into slavery to start with. your either african or american, they need to make a choice

I bet your mother is ashamed of you for being such an idiot.

Dear Steve, whatever holiday we choose to recognize and celebrate should be of no concern of yours. When idiots choose to down play the fiber of a culture and the things they choose to celebrate it shows how insensitive to mankind you truly are. I'm sure you think Halloween is the greatest reason to celebrate since it basically invokes that of the evil.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa but if you want to talk about fake holidays then Christmas is on par with being fake as well as pagan. Learn your history Steve before critizing things you clearly don't understand. Christ was not born in December but instead some time between September and mid November. The Christmas holiday as we know it today originated from the Roman pagan holiday Saturnalia week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25.

I AGREE WITH THE SENATOR. IT IS RACIST AND DOES DIVIDE. BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN AMERICA CAN CELEBRATE THEIR OWN HOLODAYS BUT DO NOT FORCE AMERICANS TO ACCEPT THEIR HOLIDAY. AFTER ALL MOST AMERICANS HAVE BEEN AMERICAN ALL THEIR LIVES NOTICE I DID NOT SAY BLACK OR BROWN AS I BELIEVE COLOR DOES NOT ENTER INTO BEING AN AMERICAN. EITHER YOU ARE OR ARE NOT. IT TAKES A GREAT DEAL OF TIME AND WORK TO PASS THE TEST TO BECOME AN AMERICAN AND ONCE YOU HAVE PASSED IT YOU ARE "AMERICAN" AND ARE VERY PROUD OF WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED. NOW FOR ALL WHO ARE SPELLING WIZARDS PLEASE STOP AND ASK YOUR SELF WHAT IS IT YOU ARE NOT STRONG IN. NOW ALL OF US ARE STRONG IN SPELLING. THANK YOU HAPPPY NEW YEAR HAVE FUN

You're aware, aren't you, that the xmas you xtians celebrate was not your own, aren't you? First it's not the birth of your 'christ'. It is an earth-based celebration from the Pagans. You people don't do anything original, do you?

Cinco de Mayois actually a celebration of heritage by the latin community in the US, and it's also celebrated regionally in Mexico. So it is far from fake. Just because you can't imagine other races having holidays, it doesn't make you a truth-speaker. As you predicted, you ARE a racist. You've proven it.

Liberalisim is actually compassion. You, sir, are exactly the opposite of compassionate.

Bad grammer, one of Rush's ditto heads?

dear Steve, you should spend more time in prayer to your imaginary god , praying to be transformed from the TROLL you are!!!!
my you rest in peace--------- SOON!

Let's see...good grammar and perfect spelling are you one of Rushs' ditto heads?

I agree Steve. To much emotion on both sides. Liberalism isn't cancer. It's just a point of view. Like Conservatism. Kwanza was made up. Like the Beach Boys were invented to battle the Beatles. It was a answer to so much of white society African-Americans similated into it was a reaction. One that most blacks really do not celerate. And waht allot of African-Americans don't remember is that Africa is a continent not one big country like the US. Kwanzaa is Swahili, an Ashanti, or an Ebo or a Fang, Bantu, Ghanan, Zulu, or indeed a Liberian may not even have heard of the Holiday and they are all African.

Mr. or Ms. Bell (very clever ploy) is mixed up on his or her facts, too. There were a lot of men named Jesus during the time of Christ; but only one died on a cross for your sins. Geesh, even the Jews and Muslims acknowledge He was a great prophet; they just don't believe in His Divinity/Humanity. And ANYBODY who knows ANYTHING knows that Christmas was changed by the early Church to make a holyday out of a pagan holiday. And shepherds wouldn't have been watching their flocks by night outside if it had been the end of December! Mr/Ms Bell, you are STUPID! I've never heard of you; but you know me now!!!!

Well everyone can call this guy a racist if you want, however im a American of african descent and guess what? My fellow American is right, we don t give a f%^#@ about kwanzaa. Most nlacks heard of it but dont participate in it, me personally never had a disre to learn about it. If you want to celebrate it go right ahead theres nothing wrong with doing that. But for me F*** kwanzaa!!!!!!

I've read the Patch often, when it has been posted like this to various forums ever since the indiscretion that took place in the State Capitol at Madison Wisconsin. This particular "Patch" seems to be from where my mother lived for about eight years in a return to apartment living after about 43 years of keeping her own household from 1940 in Whitefish Bay. Many friends of my younger-adult years lived in the Shorewood community

Then Christmas is a manufactured holiday also. Historians are certain Christ was not born on December 25th, and that the date was actually chosen to piggyback the pagan holiday of Solstice so Christians could hide their celebrations from the Romans. Aside from the obvious non-religious aspects that virtually take the "Christ" out of Christmas, Most historians agree that the birth of Christ was closer to the Fall.

But then, why would people come out of their homes in the dead of winter and spend money?

I agree with you Steve.....this whole kwanza thing is a big joke for the world to laugh at.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2222

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=536

if your an asshole and need your own holiday-kwanzaa is for you :]

And Christmas is a really fake holiday since it really isn't the supposed jesus' birthdate, since according to the gospel, his birth would have been in the Spring, and Dec. 25th wasn't declared until the 4th Century, and even that is not totally agreed upon by all christian faiths. Not only that, but Dec. 25th is actually celebrated by ancient religions and was only adopted by Constantine as a way to appease the "pagan" beliefs at that time as the Holy Roman Empire was being established.

I don't know what hick town you live in, but where I live Kwanza and Cinco de Mayo are both celebrated by many and both tend to unite rather than divide. Your remarks only shows your ignorance. Perhaps you and the senator should educate yourselves on these celebrations. And if you want to complain about a fake holiday read the history on Thanksgiving or Columbus day.

And while you are studying what's fake. Check this out! http://beginningandend.com/jesus-copy-horus-mithras-dionysis-pagan-gods/

It'll be nice when we can celebrate our commonality, as in, "What do we share that makes us ALL Americans", instead of celebrating our differences. We should focus on the principles of freedom, tolerance for diverse opinions, the preeminence of the rights of individuals over the powers of government, etc.

I've asked 7 Black Americans (who prefer to be called black Americans and not Afro American) about Kwanzaa. 2 of them thought it to be a celebration brought from africa and said that they do not celebrate it as well did not know much about it and laughed at the idea of celebrating it. The other 4 had no Idea what I was asking them; "Whats That" were their response. 1 asked quizingly; is it the celebration of the African dead relatives? Only the hard core racist blacks would be drawn to this nonsense just as the hard core white racist are drawn to that silly sick organization the KKK. Get over it Steve. And you know what else? Who even cares what anyone wants to celebrate. Mind your own business and you will find that you are to busy to mind other peoples.

First of all, who give this man the right to speak on behalf of what African Americans celebrate in the first place? Stay in you F--kin lane. [KUJICHAGULIA] The second principle of Kwanzaa instills in us the RIGHT to define ourselves FOR ourselves. I celebrate Kwanzaa, and have celebrated the holiday for the past 7 years; and know SEVERAL families and communities who do so as well. How dare you try to omit, yet another one of our traditions because you, a White American, doesn't see it's fit into Black culture? As an African American, I celebrate Christmas, Kwanzaa, New Years all with great reason. Kwanzaa has nothing to do with religious/pagan principles at all. If you want to get rid of a holiday, why don't you start with Columbus Day? There's a fucking fabricated holiday we can certainly do without!

If anyone would like to email this Senator your thoughts, his email is: Sen.Grothman@legis.wisconsin.gov

I'm with Sen Grothman! I agree with every word he said. This includes the statement that liberals are forcing this made up holiday to separate races. Then again, I'm against Afro-American Cultural Centers totally. They too divide blacks and whites. Charlotte built "a cultural center" for an obscene amount of money, and dedicated to Harvey Gantt of all people! This was done when Charlotte, due to budget cuts, was cutting back hours for libraries, closing some entirely, laying off teachers, reducing pay for teachers or not giving anyone a raise at all, foregoing much needed infrastructure work, and the list goes on. Charlotte is woefully lacking when it comes to public transit. They cancelled a much needed light rail system link that could have removed many vehicles from the road, and given people a very convenient way to get from point A to point B. Divide and conquer......that's the way it works!

I agree with you Steve........FAKE holiday............I still waiting for Indian History Month...........White History Month...............Mexican History Month and every other ethic group

He is exactly right , it is a divisive tool used by communists to divide races and nothig more, totally fake.

For the obvious idiots on here who posts about this so called holiday, you should study and understand who started it , when and for what purpose, No wonder an anti-american UN supported thug purchased the election.

It is obvious that ignorance and self-serving arrogance is a conservative trait if liberalism or any other ism is a cancer. What about Sweetest Day? Hallmark allegedly created that and they print Kwanzaa cards too! Use your little pea brain for something else, and keep it to yourself.
Peace

Though I don't celebrate Kwanzaa the principles that the holiday supports are important and deserve to be celebrated. Umoja, unity, Kujichagulia, self determination Ujima collective work and responsibility. These ideas and the other 4 that make up this period are are of the utmost importance and a holiday that celebrates them is certainly of no less importance than a holiday that celebrates the birth of someone who represents ideals that we hold dear. @ Ray-Ray having a cultural identity does not prevent you from becoming a part of the so-called "melting pot". Being Pro-black is NOT the equivalent of being a white supremacist in a nation where blacks have been the victims of oppression since the nation's inception.

I'd rather have liberalism cancer, than live in that cold, dreary, non-existant, vacuum sealed realm, that the silly rightwingers lives in. Having to be a racist is the next best thing to being an inanimated object of no substance. So.....like how did that election thing go for you back in NOvemeber???

WOW!! I knew something was wrong. Is Steve REALLY Glen's brother???????????
Gerate Gawd!!!! No wonder!!!!!! I think that we should bow our collective heads,
and pray for "end times", or something that will ease the pain of homophobia, dipso--mania, cretin thinkin, etc. And PLEASE, tell Glen to lose the "costume" he wears
when he decides to play "Thomas Paine", or any other "prop" that would make
Glen appear GREAT!!!!!!!!!

Christmas was a made up holiday at some point, too. Steve, I assume you aware of Christmas's correlation with the winter solstice. Don't you realize that humans made up Jesus? You'll find the Jesus figure has counterparts among many other religions (Horus in ancient Egypt, Shamash in Babylon, Krishna in India, Dionysus of Greece, etc etc). It all derives from humans watching the stars millions of years ago and the invention and slow evolution of religion. Think of how the printing press changed the world, and protestantism and science, too. I wonder if you would practice whatever religion you believe in the way it was practiced a thousand years ago. You wouldn't. Jesus's twelve disciples is another telling of the twelve astrological signs (Taurus, Aquarius, Pisces, etc). We are in the end of the age of Pisces (the fish) for crying out loud. That story of Jesus multiplying the fish is derived from astrology. This isn't some devil hypothesis. This is humanity becoming self-aware and commonalities being discovered through cross-cultural exchange, the internet, etc. Religion has been used by those to manipulate others into being slaves in one way or another. How else can you explain the inequalities that exist today? The proof is out there if you are able to open up your eyes. I wish you well on your life journey.

Abel and the rest of Cinco De Mayo Commentors,
You are correct about Cinco De Mayo being a Mexican Holiday Celebrating the Defeat of the French, in one little Town. After which the French Continued on to Defeat the Mexicans. Very few Mexicans even know about Cinco De Mayo and the Primary reason that there are Celebrations for it is to Bring More AMERICANS TO THEIR OCEAN SIDE RESORTS AND SELL MORE CORONA. Christmas Tradition of Gifts from Kris Kringle AKA Santa Claus are likely real, though limited to his little Germanian Town where He was probably the Craftsman, the rest of His List of Charecters is Probably Best Explained by Cheech and Chong in Santa and His Old Lady.. Kwanzaa seems to combine Decembers Two Previously Major American Holidays, That is just my quick and easy take on it. Neither of these are of any Concern to Me, I just want to know WHO MADE IT ILLEGAL FOR THE MAJORITY TO SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS OR HAVE A KETTLE AT THE STORES TO COLLECT MONEY FOR GIFTS OF THE NEEDY?

You must have missd the KWan Parade?

scot..your the one who is a puke for your nasty remark.Does the truth hurt?

Scott, good to see you are out from under your rock, still a mindless idiot .

Need to correct a typo in my comment to Mr. Steve--That's Mayo--sorry

Sad part about rightwingers, is that their shoe size, 98% of the time, is a couple of digits higher than their IQ's. Now that is really not helpful, when 99% of rightwingers shoe sizes are less than a 9 narrow. lol...lol

To speak out about this proves he is not focusing on real issues and he does not respect the freedom of religion we enjoy in this country. Yes he has a right as a citizen to express this, but, he is representing ME and this view far from represents me and many individuals, and, is disgusting. If we're going to go there, then we should step back and realize that Christmas is a fake holiday created to overshadow Solstice, and Easter is a fake holiday created to cover up Ostara, both original earth-based religious holidays. But, who cares, because we have freedom of religion and Grothmann is clearly crossing those boundaries like a bigot does, with no remorse for his bigotry. Supporting this should cause shame, but, I can see it doesn't, and that's just too bad. It's not 1950. We've all been educated and given more freedoms and allowances to be, do and say whatever we like. That doesn't mean we SHOULD.

Of course it's a fake holiday and of course if there was a white's only holiday, there would be an uproar. And of course "collective economics" means share the wealth. But sadly, this is the way our country is moving and there are better fights to engage in than this one. So go bake your St Patricks cake and get into your St Patricks duds and go wild!

I see what is taken place on the blog. You guys are still mad that President Obama is still the president ! Get use to it. It might be less painful to accept that the America you once knew in the fifties is gone.

Sally, Kwanzaa is not a fake holiday--atleast it wasn't in areas of Africa. When it
was celebrated during my first assignment in a mostly black middle school. The
celebration was of the, I believe, the fall harvest season. There are standard dishes
that have promanance in this celebration, etc. I believe that every culture has
something like Kwanzaa--Thanksgiving, Octoberfest, etc. It is a cultural celebration,
just like those celebrated all over the world. That Steve is allowed to teach anywhere is simply a reflection of the numbers of predjudiced, and yes, sick folks winding up where they should not be.

I hate to interrupt, but I just read some interesting news from a person named Amitie--
I have never heard of Christmas made up to overshadow Solstice, or Easter to overshadow Ostara????? The Catholic Chruch rigged much of the Bible to coinside
with their "doxies". These "Christian" holidays were in celebration of the main
diety's birth and death. What does "solstice" have to do with this??? Or perhaps
you are getting this mixed up with the Mayan calander?? People who practice
Witch Craft (NO--not Satanism) might have used these names to represent nature
or natural events.

@Jackie Bell -- Amitiel was correct. Many cultures had holidays around the time of the winter solstice and also a holiday to celebrate the spring awakening. The pagan solstice holiday proved very hard to eradicate in northern Europe, for obvious reasons, so the Christian church simply grafted the Nativity onto that time of year on the theory of, if you can't beat them, join them.

There was also a spring holiday, Beltane, from which we get the traditions of the eggs and the rabbits -- both symbols of fertility -- neither have much to do with the crucifixion of Jesus.

SALLY ARE YOU MARRIED TO STEVE AND HIS TWIN GLEN.

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Here's the real info on Kwanzaa@ http://www.equip.org/articles/kwanzaa/

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

Sally are you a com dump for steve?

...butt, magic underwear? do tell more...

Religions are ALL faithbased--faith--believing in something for which there is NO
EVIDENCE. As long as folks keep their religions to themselves all would be well.
I've put in some time studying this religion you speak of. To me it is no sillier than
the others--and no I'm not an atheist.

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

Hey JACKIE BELL.... Faith isn't defined as believing in something for which there is no evidence, it is the opposite, faith is trust based on the evidence of God's prior trustworthy behavior in history. It's not a blind leap into a dark chasm. Much like when you trust your best friend because they have proved themselves trustworthy in the past, so have faith that they will be trustworthy in other matters. See http://thegloryland.com/index.php?p=1_11_The-biblical-definition-of-faith
http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/what-is-the-biblical-definition-of-faith/

correction, Christmas is not originally pagan, but it is now pretty darn hallmark, and consumerism-based. Solstice may be, but Christmas was created by Christians to take place near the pagan holiday to distract people from participating in solstice, which is simply honoring God for the awesomeness of the universe... but it doesn't tell you to honor the Pope, or any other man, so, that is one of the problems with it in a fearful society lead by fearful men that don't comb their hair to go to community functions, are NOT married (doesn't that make you wonder?) and seem to hate women, blacks and anyone not like himself very deeply and personally. it's time we notice Glenn's pathologies and fear that! He's a screwball, not balanced, not normal, not a leader or respresentative of most of us

In my opinion, Christian appologists for centuries have tried to "make nice" about
the Catholic Church's "take over" of cultures and religions while shoving Christianity
down the throats of others. I think that worshiping the gods would have been more
profitable in the long run and way more fun--no witch hunts, etc.

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Right On Curtis Marshall! Just like Halloween is a pagan ritual celebration invented by white folk! Everything is fine as long as white folk create it. But when a Black man creates something all hell breaks loose....

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

St Patrick's Day has become a massive celebration of Jameson and green beer. I don't think many have any idea about its roots anymore nor do they care. Can't wait till Kwanzaa is the same and it's yours or mine or theirs or ours but no one really minds. It is a very peace-based celebration without excluding or hating on anyone. Too bad anyone hates on Kwanzaa. Proves their point, really... and the need for it!

Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am astonished that today in Wisconsin we had people such as Grossman who are seen as leaders. State Budget Oversight Committee, wow, really. Say it ain't so.

Thank you HH for an educated thoughtful response. Unfortunately I live in Washington County & while I continually vote for ANY/EVERY candidate that runs against Grothman, he continues to win, mainly because he says the things that the rich Republican bigots that live in this county say over their back fences or out in their farm fields. Men & women who never had to look for a job or deal with unemployment because their relatives bought good farmland and and they take advantage of every farm handout/low interest rate/low taxes on farmland that the government gives- all while looking down their noses and shooting their mouths off in McDonalds every morning. They are as blind and one-sided as Glenn, the apeman. Another poster was right- he makes a better living than he could if he had a real job & he gets every insurance/retirement handout that real county/city workers/teachers actually work for, as they try to stay under the radar of his HATE MONGERING comments. He is an embarassment to those of us who moved here from outside the small-minded manure pile he represents. Those of us just know & wait for the day when what goes around, comes around and he WILL find himself on the outside looking in. Maybe then he will learn that Karma catches up with those that deserve her!

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Howard, I could not have said it better! Why is it ok for the Irish folk to celebrate St. Patrick's Day and wrong for African Americans to celebrate Kwanzaa? St. Patrick's Day doe not even incorporate any principles to live by. Plus, the Irish tie up the streets with a major parade in many cities. But when it comes to Kwanzaa it is major problem for white folk and for some ignorant Black folk... The adage still lives... "If it's white it's alright... If it's Black... get back!

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

Really? Are you in need of a list of law school graduates who've made boobs of themselves? Gimme about 3 minutes and I should be able to come up with at least 20 for you...

^ in which case he needs to be examined and studied aside from our state's lawmaking body, and not in their making our laws!

hey --- everyone take note of this fact .... virtually everyone running our disfuncrtional and crippled government regardless of party or political views are college graduates of one school or another ... maybe we need to rethink what people are learning in school ... maybe we need some people in there who are just regular ordinary high school educated married or single of any sex people who actually have to worry about paying the bills, and putting food on there plate ...

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

Al Aanonson, you should also look up while your at it the principles of kwanzaa. You could be celebrating it and not even know it. Yes the person who made it up is a monster,however unity, self-determination,cooperative economics,purpose,creativity, and faith is something vital to life itself.

Amen! Get to work and shut your stupid mouth, Glenn Grothmann!

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Al Aanonson,
"The FBI attempted to aggravate the conflict. Tactics used to foment and aggravate conflict between US and the Panthers included poison-pen letters, defamatory cartoons, agents provocateurs, and creating suspicion of members of each organization as agents.[16]"

[edit] Conviction for assault

There are many who have been exonerated with DNA evidence who were found guilty by a jury of capitol crimes. Your information is informative but since you repeat it so often one wonders whether you aren't an agent provocateur?

My, you simply must be an escapee from one of our newly developed Soylent Green
Camps here in THE LONE STAR STATE. See, we're so chock full of Baggers,
mugwumps, carpetbaggers, scallywags, Republicans, Know Nothings, Inbreds elected
to office, the Lege and Gov. Perry. Texas closed all of our Lunatic Assylums years
ago--so they're out on the streets without meds., etc. Had to do something.

....Sometimes it is urged that to take a pagan festival and try to “Christianize” it is folly. However, God Himself did exactly that in the Old Testament. Historical evidence shows conclusively that some of the feasts given to Israel by God through Moses were originally pagan agricultural festivals, which were filled with idolatrous imagery and practices. What God did, in effect, was to establish feasts which would replace the pagan festivals without adopting any of the idolatry or immorality associated with them. It would appear, then, that in principle there is nothing wrong with doing so in the case of Christmas.

The question is not when Jesus was born, but if a man named Jesus was born at all.
The early Catholic Church right up to now, is an epic story so 'sorry' that the only
real way to study it is at the university level--not by revelation. But the Chruch has
been allowed to go on. The Church stiffled everything in sight that just MIGHT be
a bit pagan. However, for some, reason is just too much if they must give up belief
in angels, faires, etc. The Catholic Church is a major myth maker--and people are
going to follow those myths to the grave!! "Mind guards" allow people to believe
in things that would require their god to change "the eternal fittness of things" for
their religious beliefs. Gerate Gawd!!

A small polite correction. The theory about the timing of Jesus birth as stated in a presentation by an astronomer at the Chicago planetarium is that based on the positions of the planets, and the fact that there were shepherds out with their sheep, the birth took place sometime in the spring of 4 BC. The date of December 25 was adopted to supress the pagan mid winter celebration of the Druids.

This just shows how rampant a lack of education is in the U.S. All holidays were "made up" at some time or other and for specific purposes. 1. Jesus did exist as it can be found in numerous sources (not just the Bible). 2. He was not born on Dec. 25, but in the Spring (this has been proven based upon both archaeology and science of astronomy). Dec. 25 was chosen by early Christians because it was "symbolic" for the rebirth of humanity -- -and yes, that coincides with the winter solstice and because it would be easier to "sell" Jesus to the pagans for them to best understand who and why he existed. It had nothing to do about abolishing pagan rituals, but to show a kinship to them and that they could co-exist. It was the "later" church 300ADs that started to deal with the manipulation of holidays, Bible (from original language interpretation), celibacy, anti-paganism, etc. after the fall of the Roman Empire.
As to "fake" holidays ---- you can pretty much name "every" holiday as fake because it is "new" and that includes Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Veteran's Day, Labor Day, ...... because they were started for a specific reason. Kwanzaa hurts no one. Neither does any other religious or cultural holiday. Frankly, Kwanzaa is not even religious --- it is a cultural holiday that "some" people find to have merit. Frankly, I don't celebrate it, but I see no reason to run down others who want to enjoy what it has to offer. "Live and let live"

There actually exists no evidence that Dec. 25th is not the actual birth date of Jesus. The birth date of Jesus is simply not known, but it may have been 4 BC. Our calendar is inaccurate. It set about 4 years too late. This is known by comparing the biblical accounts of gospels and the extrabiblical records known about Quirinius, the governor of Syria (Luke 2:2) and Herod the Great (Matt. 2:19) who died in 4 B.C. in the year of Jesus' birth.
But what of the fact that December 25 was the date of a pagan festival? Does this not prove that Christmas is pagan? No, it proves that Christmas was established as a rival celebration to the pagan festival. What Christians did was to say, “Rather than celebrate in immorality the birth of Mithra, a false god who was never really born and who cannot save you, let us celebrate in joyful righteousness the birth of Jesus, the true God incarnate who is the Savior of the world.”
See http://www.equip.org/articles/should-christians-celebrate-christmas/

@BasenjiMom -- Numerous? Other than Flavius Josephus and the Bible, I'm unaware of any current historical chronicles that mentioned Jesus by name.

@Lea Winkle -- Not only must Jesus be born in the spring of 4 BCE, he must have been born before the death of Herod the Great, which I believe was in March of that year.

Why are you so threatened by this holiday, Steve? Are you required to give your employees the day off with pay? Shall we expect disparagement of Rosh Hoshanah or Eid next?

I mean, what's it to you (or Senator Grothman) if I choose to celebrate Kwanzaa or my great-aunt's birthday?

I'm sending your comment to Grothman, Randy. Don't rush out to get anything in honor of your great aunt just yet....

My great-aunt has left this world, but I still send her fond thoughts.

It's the right-on power handshake of the 1990s. Yet another politically correct tactic to get whites to pay attention to non-whites, primarily blacks. It's a fabricated holiday based on race, invented by a convicted felon, which is too third world for most black Americans, too jewish for black muslims, and too stupid for everyone else. Now that's a fine example for the ghetto children of the world!
I'm cwazy for Kwanzaa!

LOL

You are so disrespectful and should be ashamed of yourself!! Who are you to
comment on something you don't understand???

Seems as if you are the one lacking understanding. It's ok though, a lot these days suffer from white guilt.

Kwanzaa is a Counterfeit made up, holiday started by a black convicted kidnaper, rapist, Karenga, whose criminal record includes having been convicted and jailed on charges of assault and false imprisonment for the torture of two black women.

There is no nothing ethnically African about it, it is all fake and
We want to take off 8 days and stay drunk, so we will make up a holiday of or own, we will call it Kwanzaa

You Puketard. Brain washed by fox and the repub tea girls. Hurl+Puke=Steve!

Please stay focused here scot. If you feel it is such a great and honorable holiday please tell us why. But since it seems I know more than you, support of Kwanzaa is very racist. I would rather pass on this degrading made up holiday and stick to those that are real.

How stupid can you get? You just proved there is more stupidity to expect from people such as yourself

Steve, you know NOTHING of kwanzaa. You don't have to celebrate it, nobody does. Like I said if you know nothing, do not act like you know. Google can't always help you. It's ok if you don't care about having things like faith and self-determination.

I was looking for any substance in your post but failed to read it.

Please tell us all about it's honor and substance.

One last one for fun from the link above:

Obviously a manufactured holiday created by African Americans in the late 1980s/early 1990s, when the fad of that time was to be "African", which is why Eddie Murphy's "Coming to America" was a blockbuster hit in 1988, when in reality it was a racist sh## movie that made fun of people from Africa.
Kwanza is just another corporate excuse to extend the Christmas holiday by seven more days.

Uncle Tom,
We had over 500 people at a Kwanzaa event January 1, 2013. We celebrated at 4 different locations between December 26th and January 1st with crowds from 100 people and more in our community. The mayor, commissioner, and several representatives attended. We even had white people. You are just a simple minded fool who obviously knows nothing about African and African American history. You must be the dumbest, most backward, Negro on the earth. If you knew your history, you would value the celebration of it. When you don't know it, you do this Uncle Tom act. You are worst than Step N Fetch it.

Mr. Steve is a crank! How long have you been a crank sir. You are incredibly mis
informed.

Are you aware that your use of the word "retard" in that fashion is considered offensive by many?

I haven't even looked yet, but this supports my suspicion that HuffPo linked to the Patch in their article about Grothman.

Please understand, we're not all like that.

AWD, I'm not sure why you applaud G.G.'s stance. Say more. And do you really think the White House Christmas Tree and Menorah involve no government expense?

For me, it seems to be a bit odd that he is so incensed about something that has little/nothing to do with him. I think this is racial fear. Would he be comfortable with a non-Christian telling him how and whether he should celebrate Christmas? Would he propose to tell Jews that they should tone down drop Puriim?

Whether it is or is not or to whom and to what degree Kwanzaa is relevant ought to be a non-issue for those of non-African heritage. Unless you've got a problem...

Earlier comments about the source of Christmas are spot on.

If true, why is Glenn Grothman wasting taxpayer time and resources complaining about Kwanzaa? I "say" again, there are mainstream Republicans out there. Hopefully Grothman's constituents will pull up the welcome mat and elect a reasonable candidate instead.

To be fair, from what I can see here he's not really wasting much, if any, "taxpayer time and resources" on it. He issued a press release. As nonsensical as it might be, it's his own time he's wasting. The choice of others to waste their own time and resources supporting it or getting upset about it is their own. The same goes for those press and pseudo-press organizations that elect to report on it.

I don't believe that it is the "black" radical in the White House, but the white racist
on the post who needs to be carefully watched.

You are so stupid

making so sense whatsoever!!!!!

"there is only ONE Black Senator and he is Black."

I'd be pretty surprised if the single black Senator was white.

Right.

That's your personal opinion and you're entitled to it. Just because people of your shared race/political persuasion might still celebrate it, it doesn't give you the right to tell them what they should be celebrating, or when, or how much legitimacy it holds. Let people celebrate how they want to!

To Lenow Wilson, you are a liberal black "Fool".

FESTIVUS FOR THE REST OF US!

We have black history month for that. One month is plenty to remind everyone again how much you can do with a peanut..

I have one additional use to suggest to you, Steve. :)

it would appear that we are no longer a melting pot - more of a pressure cooker - with maybe a stuck release valve

I wouldn't call you a bad guy but I would call you misinformed. The term is African American NOT Afro. And your 99% theory is ridiculous. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091221212823.htm

Why are we even wasting time on Goofy Grothman? It's pretty obvious that he's got some serious perception issue going on.

Quote, " The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
Unfortunately there is no mention of fairness or every one contributing their fair share. The problem with compromise? Each Congress shall determine fairness based on fairness as perceived at the time. At the moment it seems Congress perceives that there is scarcity therfore those who have shall retain and those without shall remain without to the extent of avoiding insurrection. Yea, Rejoice!

Yes.

Here is an exerpt from the court record of Karenga who started Kwanzaa. The liberals want us to celebrate a holiday created by such a monster?

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.

A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]

Al,

Once was really enough on this. 2-3 times perhaps understandable if there were particular posts you were replying to where it was apropos. 15-20 times - beyond annoying.

Knock it off, already.

Learn some history. Don't be stupid

Can I getta AMEN brutha?

@King David....Please don't perpetrate a myth that has no supporting independent evidence. The man of whom you reference, according to the religious legend was tried and convicted of sedition by the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate. If the story is true, then the corrupt temple priests were complicit in order to protect their positions, wealth and curry the favor of the Roman occupying force.

Jews have never celebrated the birth of anyone, especially Jesus. Chanukah does not have nor has never had anything to do with Christmas. It is the most minor of Jewish holidays celebrating Jewish independence in 160 BCE from Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Selucid Empire. It is highly possible that Jesus also celebrated Chanukah. The only reason that people call Chanukah Jewish Christmas is that occurs roughly around the same time of year, but varies as to the date because the Jewish calendar is lunar. Please don't write anything further about Jews or the circumstances concerning the execution of the man called Jesus, which is Greek by the way. Also, early Christianity didn't observe any holidays except the Jewish holidays.

For those of us who have followed Glenn Grothman's string of absurd statements, he is a highly bigoted individual who represents one of the most conservative districts in Wisconsin.

@King David -- The ignorance in your post blinds me. Lyle already corrected you about Chanukkah, but I have one thing to add to the issue of the Sanhedrin.

It was not jealousy so much as self-protection. Any talk of the Messiah, king of the Jews, risked bringing down the wrath of the Romans, because the political situation at the time was volatile. Both the Jewish religious authorities and King Herod Agrippa wanted to avoid a rebellion at all costs, and if that meant turning Jesus over to the Romans, so be it. This was a fight the Jewish people could not win, as was evidenced by the rebellion of CE 70 and the destruction of the Temple.

There is blame placed upon the Jews in some of the Gospels, but this is because at the time the early Christians were striving to separate themselves from Judaism. As Lyle said, don't perpetuate this.

Lyle:

'Jews have never celebrated the birth of anyone'? That's kind of sad. Everyone should have a birthday celebration. Let me know when it's your birthday, and I'll buy you a beer to celebrate--assuming that it really isn't a violation of your religious beliefs...

Education is essential in order for you to stay relevant. Get one.

becuase it is African American...not African.

It's coming from and going in both directions, Don. That's one benefit, if you want to call it that, of having one of these local dustups going beyond the boundaries of its smaller, more homogenous community of origin. You get a broader and more diverse sampling of stupidity and hate.

C'mon, Dominick. How many people call say that they are German, Norwegian, Dutch, etc. with no desire or intention to return to the land of their ancestors. African-Americans, people of various colors and hues, including those of Irish and Italian descent point to their ancestry as part of their identity and with pride. The term was adopted by Black Americans as a way of saying 'There is more to my history than slavery.' You knew that.

Hershal, say more about why you don't want you children to have anything to do with Kwanzaa.

I think Grothman's statement is racist because its level of condemnation seems over the top if all that is functioning there is his being irritated at what a couple of predominantly white school districts are doing. But he seems both uniformed about the number of Black persons who do observe Kwanzaa--though mostly in churches and schools--and determined to paint the entire holiday with a broad brush dipped into one aspect of its founder. In other words, if Grothman didn't have a "problem" with black people, I believe this would be pretty much a non-issue as it is for most people, black and white.

Education has everything to do with jobs and our economy, or did that change?

I didn't know Kwanzaa effected school time or funding.. oh, wait, Kwanzaa doesn't.

You don't want your kids to celebrate, fine. Don't celebrate. Just don't get in the way of others enjoying their personal freedom.

If you refuse, ok then. Just stop your party from running on anything other than thier sole purpose of a Judeo-Christian only society that protects the rich only.

Actually it does affect school time/funding, that's part of the press release.

The more interesting aspect is that one of the principles of Kwanzaa is 'Faith'. Is the celebration of Kwanzaa in schools potentially promoting religion?

CowDung:
Another interesting point. This is something to think about. You are totally right.

Are you thinking the discussion of Kwanzaa be moved to the cultural studies electives we pondered of when it comes to the study of creationism?

While I must admit that I am far from being an expert on Kwanzaa, I think that it would be more appropriate as a topic for a cultural studies course rather than a school celebration...

The Sen. has every right to say what he said. No one is arguing this. We are just exercising OUR free speech by calling him a bigot (which he is) and stating he should not be in office (which he should not).

I find this a common theme in Conservative Circles. Any time one of its "leaders" - i.e. an elected official or even a media personality - says something out of line and plain wrong and gets called for it, all of a sudden it's an attack on free speech. This is not an attack on free speech. It's an attack on a racist bigot.

We have as much right to call him out as he does to make the statement. This is our free speech.

FreeThought, I recall the expression, "H/She can dish it out but can't take it." I'd say this was a classic example.

The true offense is an elected official wasting taxpayers' time and exploiting his position to express his personal opinion. Who cares what the senator thinks about Kwanzaa? I'm more interested in knowing how he's going to ensure elders in the ruralized areas he represents are properly cared for and how he will otherwise promote his district. That's what he's getting a fat paycheck and sweet pension to do, after all.

Where did I ever say such things? You sure read a lot into and defend a racist holiday. Run along.

Good job, ann. You managed to offend not only a race but an entire age group.

Facts are facts Randy1948, it is my job to educate your kind.!

Somebody can't tell opinion from fact. That's like being unable to tell your elbow from your 'behind'.

Please refute facts and stop name calling Randy1949 or I will report you to Patch!!!

* eye-roll* When I see a fact in your post, I'll refute it.

The seven principles of Kwanzaa are the very same seven principles of the Symbionese Liberation Army-Fact

It is a fact that Kwanzaa was invented in 1966 by a black radical FBI stooge, Ron Karenga — aka Dr. Maulana Karenga — founder of United Slaves, a violent nationalist rival to the Black Panthers.-Fact

Kwanzaa emerged not from Africa, but from the FBI’s COINTELPRO-Fact

Now please refute these or continue namecalling.

It may be 'fact' that the Kwanzaa principles were shared by the SLA. It is opinion that this somehow makes them nefarious. I daresay a few of the SLA members grew up going to church or watching Howdy Doody. Does that make churchgoing or Howdy Doody Marxist?

What names? Point to a name I called you, unless 'ann' isn't your name.

Maybe it is. Am I addressing the real Ms. Coulter? Your post has some astounding similarities to this one: http://www.humanevents.com/2006/12/27/kwanzaa-holiday-from-the-fbi/

Randy1949 - Good research, great post. Ann?

@MDS -- 'ann' challenged me to refute the 'facts' and Google is my friend. It seems that 'ann' is merely repeating the opinion of Ms. Couter as fact -- something I might question. What is more interesting is that 'ann' has paraphrased the original quote just enough to avoid violating copyright. It would get past the Patch editors, but not a high school teacher or a college professor. Next time, cite your source, 'ann'. It's basic courtesy not to plagiarize (copy someone else's words/ideas and pass them off as your own).

Crawl back in your hole Trisha, you bigot!

Trisha, you are 100% RIGHT!!!!

Trisha Lynn Dragon -

I think I'm in love... thank you for your insightful post!

Now, if we could only get rid of ALL RELIGIONS...

Here-here, John & Trisha!

Let is allow reason and evidence to actually prevail. We will all be better off.

FreeThought Troy -

"Let is allow reason and evidence to actually prevail."

I think you wanted to write, "let us."

There is no REASON here... and the EVIDENCE that you seek is non-existent... now we are all better off...

I really find it hard to believe that anyone would be so exercised over some group who celebrates its race, heritage, culture, and is happy to understand and embrace it.

Incidentally, America has never been a “melting pot” for any race or culture; the Polish, Italians, Jews, Africans, Mexicans, Asians, Irish, among others, all came to this country and were all treated like dirt and shuffled off to ghettos, while Anglo-Saxon Americans used them for cheap labor and ever-demeaning sources of derision…

I don't recall Karl Marx mentioning Kwanzaa in his manifesto, nor does my study of Kwanzaa reveal any tie to Karl Marx or communism...

Bren:

I guess you glossed over the principles of 'collective work', and 'collective economics' in your studies...

and Marxist worship the devil, right?! LOL

So now we are villifying words. "Collective" You can work alone like Noah in building the Arc or you can work 'collectively' with two or more people like on an assembly line. Wow, the genius of free enterprise and capitalism is really Marxist!
Teach me more professors.

James:

You seem to be ignoring the 'collective economics' part of it. Working collectively in a collective economy does seem to be what one would do on a commune. Where are the principles of 'free enterprise' and/or 'capitalism'?

Cow, Karl Marx died in 1883, Kwanzaa was established in 1966. If we are going to conjure up the term "collective," let's not exclude my favorite fantasy fiction author Ayn Rand ("Collectivism.") ; )

Bren:

Are you claiming that Communism died with Karl Marx back in 1883?

The terms 'collective work' and 'collective economics' are pretty definitive terms, Bren, and certainly aren't associated with capitalism and/or free enterprise...

Bren, may I call you a ding bat? Kwanzaa is based upon Marxist ideals and principals. You are confused as to what came first.

Young Conservative, no you may not. Collective activity does not immediately translate to communism. Reflect on collective activities that serve many people free of the shadow of Lenin: banks, chain restaurants and grocery stores being some examples. As my father the Republican says, "if there's someone riding in the limo and someone's driving the limo, it's not Communism."

Bren:

How does 'collective work' in a 'collective economy' not fall under Marxism, Socialism and/or Communism? Kwanzaa calls for everyone to join the collective and work for a common benefit. It's not a bunch of separate 'collectives' like your chain restaurants example...

Finally, after all the nonsense, a cogent post! I'll drink to that!

You are truly blessed to be able to consider this subject in such an objective fashion. However some of us live in Syria, Pakistan, North Korea, some African countries, and other places tthat are not conducive to such reflection. The children and adults in Newtown thought their lives were similiarly protected. Enjoy your status as I am sure you do; and I pray for you that you will be one for whom it will last a lifetime. We are a unity, a part of the continent, a piece of the main, part of the universe, a piece of God. Whatever you do unto the least of these (which are the least?) you do unto me. Love

The study cited by Grothman did indicate that children of single parents are indeed more likely to be victims of child abuse...

I would like to see this study.

I could be wrong - I have been wrong before, but it's probably from an org. that states better marriages should be between a man and a woman.

Troy:

There was a link to it in the J-S when the story first came out--unfortunately, I don't have it bookmarked.

A quick Google brings me to this site (note that the address is .gov) that talks about single parent situations and an increased likelihood of abuse...

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/foundation/foundatione.cfm

"Specific life situations of some families—such as marital conflict, domestic violence, single parenthood, unemployment, financial stress, and social isolation—may increase the likelihood of maltreatment. While these factors by themselves may not cause maltreatment, they frequently contribute to negative patterns of family functioning."

What exactly is wrong with emphasizing contributing factors to child abuse and neglect? Is this an issue that liberals need to tiptoe around, like co-sleeping deaths?

Greg -

Yeah!

Let us start that conversation about all the white hatred, fear and discrimination visited upon tanned people when we are "emphasizing contributing factors to child abuse and neglect."

Actually, I think the best part of the article you linked is right here:

James Coleman, a former Black Panther, argues, 'By only stressing the unity of black people, Kwanzaa separates black people from the rest of Americans. Americans must unify on whatever principles ensure we live in a safe, prosperous, God-loving country, with the race and ethnicity of any American seeking to abide by those principles being of no consequence.'

There's a former Black Panther I can agree with, at least I can agree with his second sentence wholeheartedly. I think individuals who celebrate Kwanzaa can do so without being divisive.

whites need to read your post,
white america rejects black america , even though black america tries to love white america; that is the conflict, therefore; the responsibility for that conflict lies with white america

I didn't realise that St. Nick was Polish...

CowDung (appropriate):
I didn't know St. Patrick was Irish
I didn't know St. Joseph was Italian
But Sts. Patrick and Joseph, respectively, are associated with those ethnic groups, and, as usual, ignorance and fear blind you to the real message, and that is CELEBRATE! If you have a reason, all the better.

Don't be the Grinch that stole a holiday.

Oh, and I was referring to St. Nicolas of Tolentine, not Santa Claus.

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps I shouldn't have assumed that you were referring to the 'Santa Claus St. Nick', but it seems that rarely is another St. Nick mentioned...

I guess that they should have gotten a black saint to do the job, but he is busy golfing for the next few years.

Amen! Why trash a reason to celebrate?

Ahhh.....go beat up a little granny and take her social security check, instead of trying to put together an incoherant rightwing manifesto. Get real dude.

waldo--
you seem like a typical liberal making a comment like that.

You are operating under a myth, but you are using the right tense "should". You and I both know that who your relatives are, what connections you have, who you know, where you live, what school you have attended, etc., etc. and yes what color your skin is more often than not determines whether you "succeed" or not, rather than "earning" it. Those who are aware of those human traits have tried to make it more fair or allowing success to depend on "earning" it as you put it instead. Affirmative action is only one of those attempts. If you do not see that and your words document that you don't, you "should". The United States has been racist since its inception, read the constitution. You and I have lived in this our beloved country and therefore you and I have been steeped in racism and because of that we may not even recognize it when we see it. When you are in denial you often use coping devices such as projection - attributing what exists in you onto others - which is what your comments about Kwanzaa document. Think about it and revisit the history of this country and our people before you deny it out of hand.

LOL! Thanks, Fire Fly. Frank Costanza's words seem quite appropriate here. "I've got a lot of problems with you people, and now you're going to hear about it!"

http://www.festivusweb.com/

isnt self indulgence, laziness and government assistance what obama already promotes ???

Most likely he was born in during the harvest in the late summer or early fall. But this is not disputed or makes it "fake", the church fully admits this. Nice try though even though it is hardly original.

When Christmas is created by a KKK member for whites only 40 years ago maybe you'll be on to something.

@Steve....As far as Christmas as celebrated in America, did you know that in Plymouth Bay Colony and the Massachusetts Colony that Christmas was illegal and not celebrated.

BTW, from the research I have done, which is considerable, the man Yesuha ben Joseph was probably born on April 7, 06 BCE.

Lyle Ruble -

Small government, low taxes for the job creators and strong religious principles, we had that for at least 500 years in Europe. We called it the "Middle Ages". The founding fathers came to the US to escape it.

where are all the upper dublin tizzy moms and bobble head dads
quick, lets form a phone relay and e-mail burst
where is Pladus, we need a letter
lets study this holiday and insure inclusion
do we have special food in the school cafeterias
so much to do, so little time
oh, UD

Alleged DPW "insider" proving that nobody's got the inside track on stupidity. Nice work.

It's not a matter of telling private citizens what they can or cannot celebrate, it's a matter of what holidays our public school system can or cannot celebrate.

Even if you don't agree with what Grothman is doing, you will have that from time to time, he is still doing something, which is more than the loser Democrats in the Legislature have done in years. Remember that Act 10 was a cloud of shame too.

OK. I didn't mean to start a controversy. Like I said before, while I was familiar with the other two saints/country associations, I had never heard of a special association between the Polish and St. Nick before.

If they are making part of the public school curriculum as Grothman indicated in his press release, then it does seem to be something that people should have the right to protest, particularly if one takes the Kwanzaa principle of 'Faith' to have religious significance...

It's fear, pure and simple. They are afraid that something is going to be "taken away from them."

HOW DARE "those people" have their own celebration, like our Columbus Day, or Arbor Day, or St. Patrick's Day, or even Hanukkah. They're afraid of what they don't want to understand or accept.

Personally, commemorating the traditions of our ancestors is a heck of a lot better than drinking until you puke or beating up other nationalities. At least our celebrations are real. St. Patrick wasn't Irish, and St. Joseph wasn't Italian.

Not sure that fear has anything to do with it, Mike.

It seems that the "they" you refer to is Grothman, and "those people" are actually the public schools. Not sure what you are referring to by 'commemorating the traditions of our ancestors'--Kwanzaa was unheard of by the ancestors of most African Americans, and not celebrated by any of the ancestors of the non-Black kids in those schools.

St. Patrick may not have been Irish, but he did spend a lot of time in that country, spreading his religion to the people there. St. Joseph is credited with ending a terrible drought/famine in Italy. Both are recognized by people of those ancestries because of the great things they did for those people. Perhaps we should be looking for a day to celebrate a person that did great things for Black people--maybe have a day to honor a guy like Martin Luther King...

Let me say this again, as you seem to have missed it when I stated it previously.

Kwanzaa is being forced upon public school students--the students don't have a choice to join in or not. One of the principles of Kwanzaa is 'Faith'--something that usually has religious connotations.

If we had Christmas or Hanukkah celebrations going on in our schools, I would expect similar calls for those to be ended as well.

How can New Years Day be phony? It's the first day of the year, correct?

Who's calendar are you using? Rosh Hashana is on the 1st of Tishrei, 5774 this year...

Please explain to me how kids can opt out of the Kwanzaa celebrations that inpired Grothman's press release. If they cannot opt out, it is being forced upon them.

...and if you watch the videos in Grothman's links, you will see that there is much more going on than just a discussion about Kwanzaa in those schools.

Do our public schools have Ramadan celebrations?

Falk and Lowell Elementary schools in Madison.

https://www.madison.k12.wi.us/node/8430

https://mediaprodweb.madison.k12.wi.us/node/603

Are these not the same teachers that claim that they do not have the resources to teach the basics, yet they have the resources to fund a library in Ghana?

Don't know, but the number of parents protesting it should be irrelevant. Just as it would be should public schools be found to be having Christmas, Hanukkah or Ramadan celebrations...

By the liberal standards, it would only take one. It actually would not even have to be a parent, anyone that this offends would surfice.

I wouldn't call 911 a holiday, rather a day of remembrance, like the Kennedy Assassination or the Nixon resignation.

This is the best point made thus far.
Valentine's day and St. Patrick's day have no significant meaning, at least Kwanzaa teaches some values.
The colorful clothes and hats beats the hell out of municipalities coloring a river green for drunken green beer drinkers.

@Traveltheworld -- 'Happy Holidays' is what is known as simple courtesy -- a recognition that while many people are celebrating a holiday in December, not all of them are celebrating Christmas. Quite a few of us are celebrating Chanukkah, just for starters. How is it that some people have a problem with simple courtesy?

When it is introduced as a celebration in the public school system, it becomes more than just about you and yours, and is no longer the "PERSONAL choice" that you claim it to be.

Being exposed to the holiday and the significance of it is perfectly fine, but what appears to be happening in the schools goes a lot deeper than that.

Yes, but wait until March 17th.

Yes, but wait until March 17th.

Sparky, When Reynolds was questioned by the Elections Board(predecessor to the GAB) about his failure to report an in-kind contribution of 10,000 sheets of paper, he said that God left them on his doorstep. The EB dropped the inquiry probably because it felt sorry for him.

yes, "that is being very kind...":-)

BINGO

@GovWalker needs the slobs vote!

‏@Maxbjaa

@gjzielinski @ScottkWalker taking same stance with Grothman as GOP did on "legitimate rape"...spineless

Is an asberger like a hemorrhoid? It's aspergers, you rocket surgeon!

It's 'Asperger's' technically, a form of very high-functioning autism. These individuals can be highly intelligent but oddly inept in social situations. That might account for Grothman's frequent foot-in-mouth moments.

However, I wouldn't go diagnosing someone on the basis of what you've 'heard'.

@Greg -- 'Rocket surgeon'? Really? LOL

When the cancer of liberalism took over journalism and the school system.

Kwanzaa is not a religion. Deal with it.....

Not sure why John is defending Kwanzaa in schools under the 'freedom of religion banner. Is he proposing that we bring back Christmas and Easter to our school system as well?

checkmate

Steve ® -

I know that, my emphasis was on "lily white slave owning, land owning..." "freedom of religion" just goes along with "free speech" which also allows us to have tooth fairy week, if we care.

Of course, seeing as the tooth fairy is lily white, you probably would not be getting all exercized about that... it's only the tanned people you hate...

I am an equal opportunity blue fist liberal socialist free loading big government cancer on society hater. Skin color does not matter to me.

Send to Eli J. Jackson, no me. Look up

You beat me to it. Schools celebrate a lot of made-up secular holidays, Thanksgiving included. Big deal.