Sour grapes? Or just regular smack-talkin? ;)

After the 14 months of misery the left put us through, deal with it. The reality is that Lehman will have a hard time making up the difference next time, and his retaking the district is going to be inconsequential with the new census-affected districts coming into play in November.

You know what's really sad? The fact that for the next two and a half years, the new district Lehman will be in charge of won't even be the district he won by 800 votes.

Oh well, that's how elections go. *see how easy accepting elections are?*

@Mr. Willing -

Actually, for representational purposes, the new Districts have been in effect since before these current round of recalls ever even began the committee process. See my post below. This is wholly inequitable and a perversion of justice!

https://webapps.wi.gov/sites/recall/Senate%20Incumbents%20Joint%20Reply/Exhibit%20A%20to%20Joint%20Reply%20-%2011004497%20v%201.pdf

In fact, I'm seriously considering filing the recall papers against Lehman myself as soon as he's certified by the GAB.

@James Hoffa: the whole representational vs election issue is really an inevitable consequence of redistricting and the even/odd district elections of Senators every two years. There's not really a way around it except to change the Constitution to synchronize all Senatorial elections.

P.S. You can't submit a recall petition for Lehman until he's been in office for a year; he'll likely be sworn in around about the end of the month, so you'd have to wait until roughly the start of May 2013 before you could start circulating petitions for that. Sour grapes?

@ Geoff Tolley -

I agree that it's an inevitable problem that always effects the people of those districts that don't hold their general elections in correspondence with the effective date of redistricting. Thus justifying a legitimate use of the recall provision - to remedy an inequity created by imperfect laws.

I disagree with you about when Lehman is eligible for recall - see my response to Heather A below for a more insightful analysis on this point.

Sour grapes over a clear and concise inequity - really? Wow, you guys on the left really do have a unique perspective of things, don't you?

The 21st and 22nd Senate Districts between them cover almost exactly the same area both before and after redistricting. There's a tiny sliver of the Town of Burlington and a dot of Genoa City that are being moved out to the 11th district under redistricting as the sole exceptions.

Both districts have had recall elections in the last year, and so all the pre-redistricting electors of those two districts (and hence all post-redistricting electors) have had their say on their Senate representation recently and have chosen Wirch and Lehman for those roles.

Inequity doesn't seem to be present, unless you consider being redistricted from one Senate District to another an inequity (and that's inevitable with redistricting: I myself have been redistricted from even to odd).

@ Mr. Tolley -

What you're ignoring is that Steitz won a majority of the precincts of the old 22 that are now a part of the new 21, while Wanggaard won a majority of the remaining precincts in the new 21 vs Lehman who won a majority of the precincts of the old 21 that are now already a part of the new 22. So in essence, people that are already represented by Wirch elected Lehman to represent people that have clearly rejected both him and Wirch. If you don't see how this is inequitable, then you're just not being honest about it.

Basically, the redistricting created a solid conservative majority, the new 21, and a solid liberal majority, the new 22, out of two previous swing districts. The people of the new 22 are undoubtedly happy with Wirch representing them, as the election results indicate a clear preference for a Democratic affiliated candidate, not to mention that Wirch plans on moving so that he can continue to represent the new 22 district (carpetbagger).

However, the people of the new 21 have indicated a clear preference for a Republican affiliated candidate, and are thus understandably upset over the fact that Lehman is now representing them and that all of his new constituents weren't even given a voice in such a decision. This is a classic case of inequity due to imperfect laws.

The Republicans had a remedy that would have prevented this inequity from occurring, and correcting their previous mistake, but partisan political interests prevented such a no-brainer common sense solution from advancing. Instead of doing what was both fair and equitable for the people already being represented according to the new districts, the Democrats and Dale Schultz instead sided in favor of inequity just to advance their own selfish partisan and/or personal political interests. If this is what Democracy looks like, then it has become quite disgusting, hasn't it?

Not to mention that last year's recall elections, held on August 16, 2011, occurred before redistricting became effective on August 24, 2011.

Nobody in the 21st or 22nd has been denied the chance to vote for their Senate representation: in fact they've had the chance to do so a lot more recently than many Wisconsinites.

Redistricting sucks for some: it's inevitable with the Wisconsin Constitution the way it is regarding redistricting and the Senate election cycle. It so happens that it sucks for the GOP-voting residents in the rural areas of the old 21st & 22nd / new 21st. It sucks for me too. But that's not the same as inequity. Some folk are being represented by someone they wouldn't have voted for had they had the chance. This is the reality of the redistricting process.

By the reasoning you present, we should go over the results of the last Senate elections in every precinct in the state and where they add up to a different party than the current office holder's under the new districts, the incumbent becomes immediately eligible for recall. That would put a scary amount of power into the hands of the majority party (should there be one controlling both chambers plus the Governorship) to draw redistricting lines that allow immediate new elections in districts held by the minority party. Don't think I don't see where you're coming from, but I don't think it'll pass muster on a Constitutional level and in any case I'd be loath to enable such sweeping power.

There was, however, no need for this hatchet job on the 21st & 22nd that took two marginal districts and turned them into two shoo-ins - a little tweaking at the edges would have been all that was required. This greatly decreases the power of individual voters of Racine and Kenosha Counties to determine the composition of the Senate: in future there'll almost certainly be 1 D, 1 R from them no matter the prevailing political winds and little incentive for their Senators to care about their districts more than their state party or themselves.

It seems odd that for the inequities you perceive to have come about because of a GOP-controlled legislature (contracted out to Michael Best & Friedrich and others at taxpayer expense, I might add) and the failure to fix it in one particular way by a GOP-controlled legislature (I presume you refer to SB268), you seek as a target one John Lehman who had absolutely nothing at all to do with either of these and apparently prefer Wanggaard, who did.

@Jacob Goren..."Nanny-Nanny-boo-boo" Seriously?

I doubt that Walker's buddy, the AG will investigate this issue.

Friday, June 8, 2012
Racine Voter Suppressor Turns Out To Be Illinois County Clerk
Lake County Clerk, Willard Helander
A complaint has been filed with the Government Accountability Board by a Racine resident which stems from an alleged act of voter intimidation by a poll observer at Jefferson Lighthouse Elementary School polling place.

The poll observer has been identified as Willard Helander who turns out to be the County Clerk of Lake County, Illinois.

Helander reportedly harassed and intimidated voters and even tried to prevent one voter from putting her ballot in the voting machine by following close behind and shouting at the voter.

Other voters in the area are organizing further complaints against Helander and questioning why the Jefferson Lighthouse Chief Inspector didn't remove her even though she was warned many times while she was present in the polling place on Tuesday........

http://rootriversiren.blogspot.com/2012/06/racine-voter-suppressor-turns-out-to-be.html

@morninmist -

The situation described by the lefty-liberal blog does not fall within the jurisdiction of the state AG's office. It would be up to the Racine County DA to investigate this issue.

Please, get your facts straight before spewing your meaningless partisan propaganda and rhetoric on the Patch!

And from a blog that attempts to race-bait with headlines such as "Walker Leads Among White Voters," no less!

*cough* Norm Coleman *cough*

But, thanks to the Democrats, Kevin Kennedy and the GAB Board of Directors, and Sen Dale Schultz (R), the people of the new District 21 are stuck with Lehman for the remainder of Wanggaard's term, despite having clearly rejected him, unless of course they decide to recall him. As the new districts go into effect for election purposes on November 6, 2012, and given the precedent that the GAB just laid down, Lehman would be eligible for immediate recall as of November 6, 2012, as Wanggaard's 1.5 years of holding the seat should tack onto Lehman, who is merely taking over the remainder of the term associated with that seat.

So, if anyone in the new District 21 is upset about this - file the papers with the GAB to start a recall of Lehman, and start collecting the signatures, as this election is wholly inequitable under the circumstances.

I say RECALL LEHMAN - as it's actually justified in equity, unlike all the other recalls over the last 1.5 years.

I say recall those legislative officials who voted for the iniquitous Act 43 that gave rise to this representation/election disparity!

Officials like Senator Van Wanggaard!

Oh, looks like the job's done already.

@Heather A -

That's correct! Section 10(2) of Act 43 expressly states that the new districting "first applies, with respect to special or recall elections, to offices filled or contested concurrently with the 2012 general election."

Thus, the GAB made the correct call premised upon the exacting language of the law, and I retract my previous criticism of both Kevin Kennedy and the GAB Board of Directors.

However, such language, when read in context with the rest of the Act, that effectuated the new districts for representational purposes immediately upon its passage on August 24, 2011, created the possibility for inequity that we're now faced with. Sen. Mary Lazich (R) introduced an amendment to the Act that would have remedied this situation before the recall elections were held, but legislative Democrats and Sen Dale Schultz (R), fearing a recall himself, didn't support this common sense fix.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/gop-redistricting-bill-faltering-before-afternoon-hearing-132921823.html

So, in all reality, we should be blaming stupid Republicans for drafting and passing Act 43 in such a manner that created this conflict, in addition to blaming Democrats and Sen Dale Schultz specifically for not supporting the common sense remedy of the problem.

That's why I say let Lehman become certified and then immediately start a recall against him, so that the scheduled recall election would occur after the 2012 general election, thus assuring that the electorate/constituency in the new district 21 will be recalling him.

The recall provision in the Constitution specifically states that the people "… may petition for the recall of any incumbent elective officer after the first year of the term for which the incumbent was elected…" I would argue that the word "term" is the operative part of this provision, therefor Wanggaard's 1.5 years of holding the seat during the elected term would automatically tack onto to Lehman, who is only filling out the remainder of the elected term, the first year of which has already been served, thus making him eligible for immediate recall. As there is no statute further expounding upon the constitutional requirement, or any case law that I'm aware of directly addressing such situation, it's definitely worth a shot in my honest opinion.

The thing about that passage of the Constitution is that to recall Lehman (the "incumbent elective officer") sooner than July 2013 requires the interpretation be that Lehman's term began in January 2011 rather than June/July 2012. That's quite the stretch and seems at odds with the intent of the Constitution (the 1-year limit being a grace period so that the incumbent can be judged on their record).

I'm not saying don't try (I'm not aware of such a situation being covered before either), but I am saying prepare for disappointment.

@ Mr. Tolley -

That's a completely fair, rational, and anticipated argument against my forwarded interpretation - which is why I stated that I was merely contemplating such at this point, but haven't made a definitive decision yet, as I'm well aware that this would be a severely uphill battle. However, I'd also have equity on my side, which could potentially make up for any legal deficiencies found within my preferred interpretation. As a resident of both the old and new 21st district, my father, a Vietnam Vet, is sickened over the fact that he now has a draft dodger representing him.

From your postings, I'm starting to get the impression that you also work in the legal field???

I'm not so sure about the equity issue (see my response further up the page).

Thank your father for his service on my behalf if you'd be so kind.

I don't work in the legal field, but I have nonetheless become rather interested in it over the last 16 months.

@prufrock...unbelievable, isn't it?

okay, everyone. The election is over and unless you have actual, hard proof of any wrong-doing, let's leave the accusations - from both sides of the vote - far and away.

Now that we're getting somewhat back to normal, let's also get back to civil discourse.

Thanks!

@Stormy -

The tactics used by Lehman to steal this election remind me a lot of former East Chicago mayor Robert Pastrick's electoral shenanigans. Lehman just took a page right out of the Democratic playbook!

Check out a documentary called 'The King of Steeltown' (2001), as I think you'll thoroughly enjoy it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362801/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxjiN_awIGE

Did Tate really say that? and if he did, didn't Walker win the election the first time around, why wasn't he allowed to "represent those who elected him without further futile delays" ???

@Lexi Noble -- There were no delays with Scott Walker. He was sworn into office and had the authority to sign bills into law immediately. Which he has done, representing the people who put him into office.

And the conspiracy theories continue...

@Patrick Henry: you're likely mistaking SD21 for Racine County. Within SD21, Walker gathered 708 more votes than Barrett.

@James Hoffa: you talk about "conspiracy theories" at the same time you talk about Lehman having "stolen" this election (while forgetting to steal it for Barrett at the same time) and for supporting evidence you point to a 2001 documentary. Pot, kettle, black.

@JRH...Please don't start this recall nonsense again. It backfired on the Democrats and would probably backfire on the Republicans also. People are fed up with recalls. You have the general election in five months and it will all be settled without anymore turmoil. I know you're a reasonable man and I think you will come to the same conclusion.

@Lyle -

Don't worry - upon further consideration, I've decided to abandon my personal desires of recall in this instance.

On another note, it was so very nice to see the public sector union people protesting Governor Walker's bi-partisan brat and beer summit/friendly get together. Not to mention the snide remarks from the Democrats both in attendance and from those that chose not to show up - real classy!

When the republicans offer an olive branch, this is honestly the best that the Dems can do in return? I hate to say, but instead of getting better, it would appear that the left may in fact be getting even worse! You guys better get some leadership in your ranks soon before the clowns you currently have driving the party sink the ship beyond the point of salvage.

@Mr. Tolley -

The comparison of tactics is frightening for anyone who values clean and fair elections.

Pastrick gave away sidewalks and driveways in an attempt to buy votes, while Lehman gave away pizza and CS hours. Pastrick used the public schools as recruiting stations for cheap get-out-the-vote help, Lehman did exactly the same thing. Pastrick was notorious for allowing favorable electioneering to take place in polling places, at the MLK, Jr. Center in Racine, an Obama '08 campaign poster was clearly displayed on the wall above the registration tables. Pastrick rigged voting machines to flip results and submitted a wave of fraudulent absentee ballots that favored him by a 2-1 margin. Lehman managed to hold Barrett supporters on an over three times greater level than Wanggaard held Walker supporters and the increase in margin would suggest that the absentee ballots received favored Lehman by over an 2-1 margin - despite Lehman only pulling 68% of the vote in his primary against a fake Democrat (Republican placeholder candidate Tamra Varebrook)! In fact, out of all the Democratic challengers in this round of recalls, Lehman fared the worst in the primary and yet, he's the only one to miraculously win on election night?!?!

There's just too many similarities present to deny it! The only difference is that Pastrick was eventually held liable for RICO violations, while so far, Lehman has gone untouched.

Governor Walker's "bi-partisan brat and beer summit/friendly get together" (http://walker.wi.gov/Default.aspx?Page=81ab09c5-73f0-4bb8-bd41-9fea00228689) seems to mostly be about using the Governor's office to advertise large GOP donors' products in exchange for a paltry few food and drink items.

As for Lehman, you seem to have a long shopping list of things, but right now all I see is allegations without any proof attached to them. Do you have that to go with?

By the way, having an Obama '08 poster in a polling place might be poor form, but it is not electioneering at a polling place unless Obama is on the ballot - see e.g. http://tinyurl.com/czazrvq

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "managed to hold Barrett supporters on an over three times greater level than Wanggaard held Walker supporters". Lehman won 36,351 votes to 35,517 (by 834); in SD21, Walker won 36,547 votes to 35,839 (by 708), i.e. a small fraction of Walker voters voted for Lehman. I speculate that this might be down to their prior experience of having Lehman as their senator 2007-2011.

Your 68% primary figure is meaningless on its own: an active GOTV for a fake would decrease this but indicate nothing about the real Dem. Lehman's recall total was 179% of his primary vote; Compas' was 155% of hers; Dexter's was 173%; Seidel's was 155%. So while Lehman's was the highest gain from primary, it wasn't exceptionally so.

Even the GOP MSJ is using their brains!

http://politiscoop.com/us-politics/wisconsin-politics/1451-milwaukee-journal-sentinel-calls-on-wanggaard-to-concede.html

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Calls on Wanggaard to Concede

Created on Wednesday, 13 June 2012 07:23

Madison - Conservative Newspaper, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Editorial Board calls on Senator Van Wanggaard to concede. The MJS said:

Van Wanggaard should end the suspense now and concede the race to Lehman. Racine County election officials said Tuesday that the official canvas has Lehman winning by 834 votes; it seems unlikely that a recount will change that number substantially.....

@Mau -- My understanding is that the margin of victory in the Lehman/Wanggaard election exceeds the percentage for which the taxpayers will pay for a recount. Which makes it more frivolous than the Prosser/Kloppenburg recount.

If your guy wants to spend his own money, that's his decision. To me it looks like a delaying tactic because the GOP is so afraid of losing control of the state senate.

Randy, your understanding is correct: for the recount to be done at taxpayer expense, the original result has to be within 0.5%, which it was in the 2011 Supreme Court race but not here (see https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/9/01/1/ag/1).

In that race there was a demonstrated inability to do basic checks of the results on the part of one of the County Clerks.

It's funny that if Van does it it's frivolous. But if a (one) liberal Dane County judge puts a law on hold it's not. I have no problem with Van paying for it. Unlike the democrats who want the taxpayers to pay for everything including this $$$$$$ recall.

@mau -- It's the law. Do you have a problem with the way the laws are written? I'm sure your Governor and your state legislators will be happy to change the laws for you. Just not right now.

@Randy, my my my. OUR Governor and OUR Legislatures. By all the comments I see on here there are a lot of people on both sides who want laws changed. Including you. I can't wait until Voter ID is enacted again.

My point, Mau, is that the GOP is mostly in control for the near future. As for Voter ID, there's a little problem with it being possibly unconstitutional. If they want to modify it to keep it in tune with the Wisconsin Constitution, that would be another thing.

I agree. The democrats are always saying there are no voting irregularities. This would be the way to prove it.

@morninmist -

That is one of the stupidest things that you've ever posted. Why not just link to the original Patch article instead of some lefty-liberal blog that offers no insight beyond the scope of the story itself?

http://mountpleasant.patch.com/articles/did-redistricting-disenfranchise-voters-in-the-new-21st-senate-district

There's actually a pretty good debate going on over on that board.

Good grief, the Republicans are the whiners and losers? Ground control to morninmist, we listened to the democrats whining, crying, threats, protests, death threats for almost 2 years, and they still lost.

Good grief, what Orwell's 1984 dream world are you living in. Lehman is an un-American draft dodger.

@morninmist -

A hack piece from a partisan hack, John Nichols - the man is a joke ever since he was duped by the Onion style parody about Paul Ryan on some lefty-liberal blog that he thought was true! Further proof of this lies in the facts that:

- Nichols considers about 240 cross-ticket ballots as constituting a "striking number;"

- Nichols considers Lehman's win to indicated "that President Obama remains well-positioned in Wisconsin" despite a new Rasmussen poll out yesterday that indicated the exact opposite;

- Nichols completely brushes off the fact that the Senate is not schedule to reconvene until after the November elections, during which there is a very real possibility and a high probability that the Senate will once again flip to a GOP majority.

Only a hack such as yourself would even take Nichols serious.

BTW - He forgot to mention how Lehman:

- was responsible for a $1B+ tax increase during his previous tenure, which also constituted a lie concerning his direct campaign promise not to raise taxes;

- received no bi-partisan support on any of his previously introduced legislation;

- was well known as a bullhead and stonewaller during his previous term;

- is a convicted draft dodger;

- dated his current wife while he was teaching her in a public school (an abuse under the color of an authoritative public position);

- used the public schools as his personal campaign recruiting stations and enticed students with the promises of free pizza and community service hours;

- was coerced to run in this recall by the DPW and not because he wanted to run;

- … well, the list of negatives is quite simply endless!

@JRH...Do you need something to do? This whole thing with Lehman is like old dead fish, it's beginning to smell to high heaven. This whole thing will quickly pass after the November elections.

From my perspective, as someone who voluntarily served during Vietnam, I can more easily support a draft dodger than those that manipulated the system with deferments and exemptions or cushy assignments. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the recent election and outcome. It will all be settled soon and I suggest you find something more worthy of your time and talent.

@Lyle -

Thanks - I'll take that to heart ;-)

Although, calling out John Nichols for the partisan hack that he is, is time well spent!

President Ford pardoned Lehman and many others who fled to Canada. Many Americans were upset by Ford's action. So these others you mentioned also fled the country to avoid the draft?

@robert heule -

As mau stated, Lehman was pardoned by Ford, not Reagan. And to my knowledge, Cheney, Bush, and Romney were never convicted of draft dodging, as one would need to be in order to receive a pardon for such. Cheney and Romney managed to legally avoid the draft by applying for and receiving deferments and exemptions. Bush W served in the Texas Air National Guard, although, his critics contend that he received favored treatment due to his father's political influence and was therefor never deployed to Vietnam. Whether or not H.W. exerted any special influence has never been conclusively proven.

Lehman, however, was tried, convicted, and sentenced to community service hours and 9 months in prison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adB_1wsOozc

@mau...I thought you were better than us "lefty" liberals. Everything is going to change in five months anyway. Like I said to JRH, you have better things to do with your time.

No one is asking you to drop anything. You can still pledge your support to the Voter ID law. Other than that, your side won and the voter ID is not a dead issue. Just because Lehman won the old 21st, he won't be running in that district in November, he will have to run in one of the new districts that the Republicans drafted. If you want to bitch about something, I'm trying to figure out how we can get more of your tax money. I'm scheming every waking hour to separate hard working Wisconsin taxpayers from their hard earned wages.

I sat out all the bickering for the last few weeks because there was just too much crap flying back and forth. What I do with my time is my business. I was and still am in the 21st district. JRH can correct me if I'm wrong, but we are stuck with Lehman until 2013. He serves out Wanggaards term.

@Lyle -

You can get the whole run down about SD21 and why people are upset here:

http://mountpleasant.patch.com/articles/did-redistricting-disenfranchise-voters-in-the-new-21st-senate-district

I knew I had to hang on to my wallet extra tight with you around ;-)

@Lyle, mau: while Lehman won't be running in the new SD21 in November, it is because SD21 isn't due for another senate election until November 2014. It is the even-numbered senate district seats that are up in 5 months' time.

Lehman will become eligible for recall most likely late June 2013 for (judging by recent cases) an early October 2013 election if you can't wait that long.